Where does power come from? - Page 2

Originally Posted by Piotr

I have lurked and read this forum for some time. I found the "strength training" thread particularly interesting. In fact, I stopped going to the gym because of it. The question that I still have is: why do bigger riders tend to have greater power outputs. Simple enough - they have bigger muscles..

Originally Posted by Roadie_scum

Learn to sit in. Bettini does alright and he's not massive. Tactics, tactics, tactics.





No. There is no reason to want to bulk up.



No they don't. If they did bulk up, there is no reason to think that this would lead to them getting better.

Originally Posted by frenchyge

I doubt it. Bulking up typically implies muscle hypertrophy, which means that the individual cells grow (as opposed to growing *more* cells). As each cell grows, it's ability to produce force grows, but it's ability to produce energy does not. Your W/kg will go down as a result.

Edit: However, even though your W/kg goes down, you're still likely to be somewhat more competitive in flat TT's and windy circuit races.

Originally Posted by Bigbananabike

Most pro cyclists do bulk up - from the likes of under 23s to fully fledged pros there is increase muscle mass - that doesn't just come from normal growth.

Originally Posted by RipVanCommittee

Close...they have bigger lungs, and bigger hearts. It's not 'bigger muscles' per se that makes them put out more absolute power.

As far as being at a disadvantage in a TT or in the wind, this is largely a self-fullfilling prophecy--lots of small guys think they're at a disadvantage, so they don't bother getting themselves in a really good aerodynamic position. At 61 kg or so, I'm probably stronger in a flat TT or big cross-wind than on a climb, mainly because I've gotten myself into a really good, aerodynamic position, both on my road bike and my TT bike.

There are plenty of good small TT'rs, too (Hamilton, Levi, etc...)--take advantage of your size and get in as small a position as possible. If anything, you're at a big advantage in a break on a really windy day, since the larger riders are getting less draft when you're on the front (and you're getting proportionally more of a draft). Think about it...

Originally Posted by Piotr

Frenchyge, I appreciate your insight on the subject. It occurred to me that if muscular hypertrophy is mostly a bad thing in cycling, then conversely atrophy we may experience during racing season is mostly a good thing. After all, we're not getting rid of our "little engines", just making them leaner. Is their capacity to produce energy and power decreased due to atrophy? What am I missing here?

Originally Posted by xbgs351

When on the flat or into a head wind what really matters is the power to frontal area ratio.

Weight is proportional to volume, but a doubling of volume results in less than a doubling of frontal area. To get an idea of how it works picture a 1cm cube. The frontal area is 1 square cm. Now picture 8 x 1 cm cubes placed to make one 2 x 2 x 2 cm cube. The volume is eight times larger but the frontal area is only 4 times larger.

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

nail on head... on the flat the biggest resistance to forward motion is pushing air out of your way and drag... larger rider = less proportional frontal area (see above) to power ratio --> better TT, better in a head/cross wind etc...

larger riders have proportionately larger lungs and heart to go with their larger muscles... and it's the larger heart and lungs that allow them to produce more power at FTP...

larger muscles would increase your capcity for larger power output but are not going to do anything for you in a longer steady effort... my FTP is in the region of 250W but my maximal power is about 1200W.. so FTP --> no where near my maximal power output, so my capacity to produce power is not limiting since at FTP i'm not anywhere near what i could do + different energy system... what is limiting my FTP is my rate of power produced aerobicly... i.e. how much oxygen i can get to my muscles and how efficiently my muscles can use it... basically larger muscles are not going to do anything for your TTing... heart and lung transplant from Andre the Giant might

on a hill, where speeds much lower the effect that drag has is much reduced and so the biggest factor is weight (gravity) so W/kg is the deciding factor but still W is watts produced aerobically so it is still determined by how much oxygen you can get to your muscles not the size of your muscle.. i.e. why Rassmuse,n who looks like a skeleton on a bike can win the polkadot jersey in the tour de france..

as others have eluded to, you need to learn to use what you have to your advantage... i'm 55-56kg (racing weight) and i know that in a RR i can get a great draft from almost anyone in the peleton.. proportionately better than others as well and very few can get a reasonable draft from me. in a break or a TT my postion and aerodynamics are extremely important... work on your tuck...

bottom line is that unless you are a sprinter (where maximal power actually matters) you are wasting your time lifting weights.

Originally Posted by Aussie Steve

An Aussie rider called Cadel Evans, who is very very light, has always been a very good climber, and got the Pink Jersey in the Giro d'Italia a few years ago. He did a lot of work on his strength and won a Gold Medal at the Commonwealth Games in 2002 or maybe 1998 in the time trial. So it can be done, but remember he is a pro and has the best training methods at his disposal. It will be interesting to hear other people's suggestions and ideas, hopefully something will work for you...