Weight Lifting & Cycling?? - Page 4

Why not increase your aerobic or anaerobic capacity? or both?

That would have the same desired effect and perhaps be a lot more effective (strength training has little to do with endurance performance).

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This is a good point!

2Lap is dead right it does not improve endurance performance. But I feel that people are arguing about two different things here.

I am sure people are not doing weights to improve endurance performance. We are doing it to improve strength.

and if I here one more time, "strength is not required for endurance cycling races", I think I will go crazy! - I dont know what type of racing you guys are doing but maybe you should come over here and race where I race and you might have a different thought!

Weight training does improve strength and strength is involed in cycling!

High levels of strength are *definitely* not required for (endurance) racing (i.e., road, TT, track endurance etc). Anyone (who is healthy, age and gender matched) can produce the requisite forces needed for cycle racing.

Even the power output of elite Tour de France riders is a *doddle* to meet. For e.g., it can be estimated that LA produces ~ 400 W when cycling up a mountain. You'd be hard pushed to find a healthy, age matched guy that couldn't produce ~ 400 W. It's the ability to *sustain* these efforts for long periods of time, that sets us apart.

The ability to sustain these efforts is a function of (e.g.) LT, TTpower and power at VO2 max. It's nothing to do with strength, which is a measure of the maximum force that can be generated by a muscle or group of muscles.

Yes, weight training does increase strength. Strength does not need to be increased for endurance cycling. And, yes, i've seen races abroard, raced abroad myself, and have data from pro events (e.g., Tour de France, World Championships, world records) all the way down to fitness riders and everything in between.

Which psychiatric hospital would you like me to contact for you :-))!!!?

Ric

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LOL

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I am sure LA uses a very low watt reading while ridding up some mountain! But thats not what makes him get away! Its the Explosive attack that he makes so no other rider can jump on his wheel! That requires strength! Once you are away your away and riding with little wattage!

Its the sprints! Its the big attacks that requires the strength.

Most Road Racers only peak at around 1500 watts, I can only muster 1300 watts (60 kg rider). So not much strength needed there.

Track sprinters peak out at 2000-2200+ watts. So a definate need for strength.

I did used to train for strength when I did cyclo cross though, found picking up my 'tank' of a bike quite hard going particularly when it was covered with mud!!!

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But Lance told me weights are important!

Did lance say 'weights' or 'strength training'? (He does core stability work doesn't he?)

@2LAP - Stength training with weights!

I dont like talking about Watts! I dont beleive it is a true value of power if you dont include the torque! Now to think of it, watts is not a good reading with torque at all!

If you swape the engines of a Holden Barina(car)(1.3) 60KW! and put a R1(motorbike)(1) engine into it, 115KW, it is not strong enough to push the weight of the Car! But the R1 engine has almost produces twice amount of power(in KW form!) Its the torque that it lacks which is consided the true value of accelation and power(strenght) of the engine!

So the power form for Watt in the pedal stroke and the actualy strength(torque value) would be two different things! So I done believe using the Watt value as a true power output for cycling!

because........

The torque at the wheels (that divided by the wheel radius is the force on the ground accelerating the bike) is the product of the torque from the bottom bracket multiplied by the gear ratio (RPM rotational speed / wheel’s rotational speed). So the max acceleration at each speed is : max (Torque x RPM) = max power.
Peak torque is the max force on the ground on a given gear ratio but it doesn’t necessarily correspond to max acceleration in that gear because with fixed gear ratio the rpm is directly connected with speed and drag (aero + rolling resistance) depends by speed.

Ricstern you said a max output of 400Watts so what was the torque value at this given watt reading??

Originally posted by zakeen, i responded with >>

@2LAP - Stength training with weights!

I dont like talking about Watts! I dont beleive it is a true value of power if you dont include the torque! Now to think of it, watts is not a good reading with torque at all!

>>Eh!? Power (watts) is what moves you down the road, it's the sum of all the resistive forces that must be overcome (e.g., air drag, grade, rolling resistance, bearing resistance, etc)


If you swape the engines of a Holden Barina(car)(1.3) 60KW! and put a R1(motorbike)(1) engine into it, 115KW, it is not strong enough to push the weight of the Car! But the R1 engine has almost produces twice amount of power(in KW form!) Its the torque that it lacks which is consided the true value of accelation and power(strenght) of the engine!

>>it has to be said i don't know anything about cars, but i can categorically state that power isn't strength. They're two completely different metrics

So the power form for Watt in the pedal stroke and the actualy strength(torque value) would be two different things! So I done believe using the Watt value as a true power output for cycling!

>>you're suggesting that power is no good, but what would be the point then of people (LA included!) using a power meter?


because........

The torque at the wheels (that divided by the wheel radius is the force on the ground accelerating the bike) is the product of the torque from the bottom bracket multiplied by the gear ratio (RPM rotational speed / wheel’s rotational speed). So the max acceleration at each speed is : max (Torque x RPM) = max power.
Peak torque is the max force on the ground on a given gear ratio but it doesn’t necessarily correspond to max acceleration in that gear because with fixed gear ratio the rpm is directly connected with speed and drag (aero + rolling resistance) depends by speed.

Ricstern you said a max output of 400Watts so what was the torque value at this given watt reading??

>>The force at the pedal makes no odds whatsoever as long as the power that is needed can be produced.

Ric

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As 2Lap mentioned, as have I peak (sprint) power isn't different between trained endurance athletes and untrained age and gender matched individuals.

Anaerobic capacity isn't going to be vastly different (if at *all*) between elite and non-elite riders (but would be different between track sprint and endurance riders). The actual acceleration and attack won't significantly differ -- it's the sustaining of a good effort afterwards that's important.

Ric

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Thats the whole thing that differs the cycling level in road races. Its not the sustaining of a good effort after the attack! Its the attack! When one rider attacks and you chase, if he is riding away from you and you cant hold that pace, it means that you can not turn the pedals any faster because you are not strong enough - more endurance is not going to help you here!! its all about power on pedal!

Rather than not being strong enough, most riders will experiance burning in the legs and breathlessness if the effort is longer than 10 seconds. This indicates a lack of aerobic and anaerobic capacity. The rider cannot supply the energy/resynthesise ATP at a rate sufficent to maintain the intensity required to stay with the attacking rider.

most people (trained) can attack quite hard and not significantly differently to the pros (e.g., i can average ~ 670 - 700 W for ~30-secs at 68 kg, which won't be significantly different to what a pro can manage). However, once *i* settle down to a rhythm (after e.g., 30-secs) my power will be about 250 - 300 W, a pro (similar size to me) will be knocking out > 400 W. This steady effort (probably above TT power for several+ mins) will be dictated by aerobic metabolism (e.g., VO2 max).

similarly, the world pursuit record (chris boardman, who is the same size as me, so we can directly compare), averaged around 520 W for the 4min11 secs. I have no problem producing that power (~ 520 W), my problem is sustaining it for a long period of time (i.e., i can probably last about 45secs before i've had enough).

It is all about (sustained) power at the pedals, however, this isn't strength and nor is it trained by strength training. On the bike training geared towards efforts that are at VO2 max and supramaximal, and increase power at LT.

Ric

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Having a max reading and saying that you can produce the same amount of power as are pro..... I dont think thats a good point to have. A power output reading is only a reading! Its the time it takes to get that max power reading!

You have no drama producing 520w just like chris boardman But I bet you he can get to that reading a lot quicker then what you can! This is how torque comes into power bands and they use it for cars because it shows a true power reading! KW is very missleading! Its the strength that can get to that power reading the quickest! VO2Max wont help you there, its all strength!