Any fitters in this forum?

[serpico7]

I've had a pro fitting done, but wasn't satisfied with the results, partly because the fitter set me up in a very aggressive position, which proved too much for my limited flexibility. Since then, I've done a lot of trial and error adjustments, and am considerably more comfortable. However, one problem area remains - my knee. I've managed to reduce discomfort a little, but the pain remains and, as I'm getting stronger and putting more power to the pedals, knee pain seems to be the limiting factor in my cycling.

So I was hoping that someone very familiar with bike fitting, and, in particular, familiar with saddle height, fore/aft, knee plane, varus wedges, stance width and cleat positioning could help me out. I would be willing to pay, though after shelling out over $200 on the earlier fitting, my budget is tight.

Here's how I figured it could be done. I send/post online a video of me on rollers, taken from various angles. You review and make suggestions. I incorporate those suggestions and put up a new video. Repeat as necessary.

[Sillyoldtwit]

Originally Posted by serpico7

I've had a pro fitting done, but wasn't satisfied with the results, partly because the fitter set me up in a very aggressive position, which proved too much for my limited flexibility. Since then, I've done a lot of trial and error adjustments, and am considerably more comfortable. However, one problem area remains - my knee. I've managed to reduce discomfort a little, but the pain remains and, as I'm getting stronger and putting more power to the pedals, knee pain seems to be the limiting factor in my cycling.

So I was hoping that someone very familiar with bike fitting, and, in particular, familiar with saddle height, fore/aft, knee plane, varus wedges, stance width and cleat positioning could help me out. I would be willing to pay, though after shelling out over $200 on the earlier fitting, my budget is tight.

Here's how I figured it could be done. I send/post online a video of me on rollers, taken from various angles. You review and make suggestions. I incorporate those suggestions and put up a new video. Repeat as necessary.

You could take a look at this link - it might help. Tyson
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...LCULATOR_INTRO

[serpico7]

Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit

You could take a look at this link - it might help. Tyson
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...LCULATOR_INTRO

Thanks, the adjustments I need are way more subtle than what I'd get from that calculator. But it raises a point I forgot to mention - namely that I have a set of measurements (all the ones that the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator employs) taken with the help of a friend, so that might make an online fitting procedure easier.

[sogood]

How would an aggressive position affect the knee? I thought that being aggressive, one primarily modifies the reach and drop ie. Upper body. Shouldn't have an impact on the knees, right?

[rwinthenorth]

Originally Posted by serpico7

I've had a pro fitting done, but wasn't satisfied with the results, partly because the fitter set me up in a very aggressive position, which proved too much for my limited flexibility. Since then, I've done a lot of trial and error adjustments, and am considerably more comfortable. However, one problem area remains - my knee. I've managed to reduce discomfort a little, but the pain remains and, as I'm getting stronger and putting more power to the pedals, knee pain seems to be the limiting factor in my cycling.

So I was hoping that someone very familiar with bike fitting, and, in particular, familiar with saddle height, fore/aft, knee plane, varus wedges, stance width and cleat positioning could help me out. I would be willing to pay, though after shelling out over $200 on the earlier fitting, my budget is tight.

Here's how I figured it could be done. I send/post online a video of me on rollers, taken from various angles. You review and make suggestions. I incorporate those suggestions and put up a new video. Repeat as necessary.

For me, knees are strictly 2 functions: 1. saddle height and 2. saddle position.

1. Make sure you are raising the saddle up enough. I have mine to the point where when the peddle is at 6:00, my knee is a hair under straight, and I mean a hair. It feels a little odd at first but you get used to it fast and it will produce more power with less effort (the part I like). The seat being too low can put pressure on the tendons around the knee cap because your using them instead of the power muscles by not flexing your legs far enough.

2. Make sure your seat is level or pitched a few mm forward. Once in a while if my seat slips backwards even just a few mm's, it will pinch my ham/groin muscles which in turn make my knees ache, especially across the top of the cap. I don't know the physiology of it but it works.

When you've dialed those 2 thing in, you'll know it immediatley with a sigh of relief. It may have been the fit was right, even if aggressive, but things may have moved around just enough to cause discomfort. Also, lower your gearing and spin faster to take the stress off of your knees. They may need a week or two of this to relieve the swelling and pain after you've fixed the problem. Good luck.

[sideshow_bob]

Originally Posted by sogood

How would an aggressive position affect the knee? I thought that being aggressive, one primarily modifies the reach and drop ie. Upper body. Shouldn't have an impact on the knees, right?

unless by aggressive they've achieved that by lifting the saddle to increase the drop enough so they are maxing out leg extension on the downstroke.

--brett

[serpico7]

Originally Posted by rwinthenorth

For me, knees are strictly 2 functions: 1. saddle height and 2. saddle position.

1. Make sure you are raising the saddle up enough. I have mine to the point where when the peddle is at 6:00, my knee is a hair under straight, and I mean a hair.

Isn't the knee bend at the bottom of the stroke supposed to be ~30* (with a range of 25-35* depending on the individual)?

Originally Posted by rwinthenorth

2. Make sure your seat is level or pitched a few mm forward. Once in a while if my seat slips backwards even just a few mm's, it will pinch my ham/groin muscles which in turn make my knees ache, especially across the top of the cap.

By "pitched forward", do you mean nose tilted slightly down? Or do you mean saddle fore/aft position?

Originally Posted by rwinthenorth

Also, lower your gearing and spin faster to take the stress off of your knees. They may need a week or two of this to relieve the swelling and pain after you've fixed the problem.

My cadence averages 100-110 during hard efforts (seated climbing is lower: 75-90 depending on the grade).

[serpico7]

Originally Posted by sideshow_bob

unless by aggressive they've achieved that by lifting the saddle to increase the drop enough so they are maxing out leg extension on the downstroke.

Yeah, pretty high saddle height. My hamstrings aren't very flexible so the high saddle height gave me some lower back pain. A slightly lower saddle eliminated the low back pain. I've been working on hammy flexiblity, so maybe I could raise the saddle back up a bit, which probably would make my knees feel better.

[serpico7]

What the hell - here's a video of me on rollers. Observations? Suggestions? Thanks.

Oh, I wasn't particularly smooth on the rollers because I hadn't logged much time on them when I made that video. So if a newer video with me doing less darting side-to-side would help, I can create it.

[sogood]

Originally Posted by sideshow_bob

unless by aggressive they've achieved that by lifting the saddle to increase the drop enough so they are maxing out leg extension on the downstroke.

Ummm... Interesting definition of aggressive if that's what the OP meant. In any case, if the fitter over-stretched the legs, then that's a bad fit by definition.

[rwinthenorth]

Originally Posted by serpico7

Isn't the knee bend at the bottom of the stroke supposed to be ~30* (with a range of 25-35* depending on the individual)?

By "pitched forward", do you mean nose tilted slightly down? Or do you mean saddle fore/aft position?

My cadence averages 100-110 during hard efforts (seated climbing is lower: 75-90 depending on the grade).

I will say, my fit for me is on a traditional diamond frame, not the relaxed frame like yours, and it doesn't look like your fit is aggressive. With that in mind...

Yes pitched forward maybe a few mm of level.

Looking at your video your legs look like they are not stretching far enough, but it also looks like you saddle is a little far back, meaning your legs look like they are trying to reach to far forward instead of coming around and going straight down on the peddle stroke. The seat post is up there and doesn't look like it has any more room to go up. Is this the right size frame for you? No offense if this was what was recommended by your fitter. Relaxed frames fit a bit differently

High cadence is good. I was just commenting on lowering your gearing and not to chomp on the high gears while your knees heal.

[rwinthenorth]

Originally Posted by serpico7

Isn't the knee bend at the bottom of the stroke supposed to be ~30* (with a range of 25-35* depending on the individual)?

By "pitched forward", do you mean nose tilted slightly down? Or do you mean saddle fore/aft position?

My cadence averages 100-110 during hard efforts (seated climbing is lower: 75-90 depending on the grade).

Pitched forward

[serpico7]

Originally Posted by rwinthenorth

I will say, my fit for me is on a traditional diamond frame, not the relaxed frame like yours, and it doesn't look like your fit is aggressive.

This isn't the fitter's fit. I made changes to get more comfortable, namely, reducing the drop from 8cm to 2cm. But the saddle setback is what the fitter set me up with, and the saddle height is ~1cm lower.

Originally Posted by rwinthenorth

Looking at your video your legs look like they are not stretching far enough, but it also looks like you saddle is a little far back, meaning your legs look like they are trying to reach to far forward instead of coming around and going straight down on the peddle stroke. The seat post is up there and doesn't look like it has any more room to go up.

Yeah, someone else said the same thing about saddle too far back. Seat post has plenty more room to go up, if that's the right thing for a better fit.

[sogood]

Originally Posted by rwinthenorth

...it doesn't look like your fit is aggressive. With that in mind...

Looking at your video your legs look like they are not stretching far enough, but it also looks like you saddle is a little far back, meaning your legs look like they are trying to reach to far forward instead of coming around and going straight down on the peddle stroke. The seat post is up there and doesn't look like it has any more room to go up. Is this the right size frame for you?

I get that impression too, as if the hip was so far back that the legs were trying to reach for the pedals and the trunk was trying to reach forward.

Maybe it's a distortion from the lens, but what's the proportion of your trunk to leg length? Your arms looked pretty long too. The suggestion of using Competitive Cyclist's fit calculator seemed worthwhile.

[serpico7]

Originally Posted by sogood

I get that impression too, as if the hip was so far back that the legs were trying to reach for the pedals and the trunk was trying to reach forward.

Maybe it's a distortion from the lens, but what's the proportion of your trunk to leg length? Your arms looked pretty long too. The suggestion of using Competitive Cyclist's fit calculator seemed worthwhile.

Overall height is 170cm height. Cycling inseam is 84.5cm. All legs, and skinny ones at that.

Yeah, I've used the CC calculator - my setup is within the ranges provided for by the various "fits".