VO2max workouts again. Arrgghhh!!! - Page 2

I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Whether or not you race, do you ever want to dig real deep for a 3 to 5 minute effort like a hard short climb? Do you start to plateau on year round sub-threshold work and want to raise your aerobic ceiling a bit? Do you simply enjoy going fast on a bike and like to really jam for a few minutes at a time?

I probably wouldn't advocate a lot of dedicated L5 sessions like 5x5 minute VO2 Max intervals and definitely wouldn't advocate twice a week sessions for someone without racing and peaking goals. But I wouldn't call L5 work useless or tell you to avoid it entireley, just don't scrap the SST/Threshold work to squeeze in L5 work.

VO2 Max work can help you break through plateaus (as can backing off to SST for folks who've been pushing hard, racing a lot or neglecting base), can help raise your aerobic ceiling, can be a nice change of pace, and help develop speed and can definitely help when preparing for a key event but it's not magic and typically comes at a cost to your overall training mix and weekly load.

For a non racer I'd tend to lean towards a lot of SST work, maybe some dedicated Threshold work and leave the L5/L6/L7 work to spontaneous efforts that happens during group rides or when the mood strikes you. IOW a fartlek approach to high end work, keep it fun, enjoy being on the bike and go fast and hard when you feel like it instead of structuring a specific day of misery for the high end stuff. Racers can use their upcoming races and competitive goals as motivation to stick to a high end program. Personally I'd do a lot more group rides and a lot fewer structured solo, high end sessions if I didn't have upcoming races to keep me focused.

YMMV,
-Dave

If you truly won't ever ride above FTP and you haven't hit a stall in your FTP progress and your event will be long then I'd personally skip the dedicated L5 work. But is that description above really accurate? You won't have a three to five minute climb or crosswind section where you'll need to dig deep, exceed your FTP to hang with a group and get the benefit of being with them on the far side of the climb or when the wind changes? You're sure you'll pace yourself to never exceed FTP?

But from a peaking perspective the general rule of thumb on peaking is to sacrifice more base and arrive on race day fresher (higher positive TSB) for short intense events and to spend less base and arrive on race day fitter (lower, possibly slightly negative TSB) for longer endurance events. From that standpoint and from the implication that this 5 plus hour event is very long relative to your normal long rides I'd lean to less of a formal peak. IOW, hang onto as much CTL as you can going into the event and do only a gentle mini-taper that takes you to a neutral or slightly positive TSB on race day.

If your particular strengths and weaknesses suggest some L5 work(what's your power profile look like and will increasing your 3-5 minute power be useful during your target event or useless as you suggest above) then I'd still limit it to no more than one session a week so that you can continue the SST/Threshold work and build or at least maintain CTL as you approach your long event.

Good luck,
-Dave

Yeah, the event I am speaking about is La Marmotte in France. A cyclosportive of 172km with 4 mountains. I opened a special topic about it for a pacing strategy: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t461419.html

I will pace myself at <0.80. Because most of my rides are <2 hours, occasionally I do 3 hours but La Marmotte will take me 7-8hours.
Thanks, this was another question that I had in mind. How to taper... But I think I won't. Just take it a little bit easier the days before to keep my CTL high (80tss/d at the moment).

For the L5: I hardly do it. When I do it, it's for variation. Today I did my 3th attempt for an L5 workout this year. The only problem is "how hard should I do it". I almost got it right, and set a new PR for my relative 5mp power (not my absolute 5MP): 5.8w/kg I lost another kilo of bodyweight

Interval 1: 5:01, AP 375, IF 1.173, C 95, S 40.3kph
Interval 2: 5:01, AP 383, IF 1.189, C 98, S 42.6kph
Interval 3: 5:01, AP 385, IF 1.201, C 98, S 41.2kph
Interval 4: 3:02, AP 378, IF 1.179, C 96, S 42.0kph (failure)
Interval 5: 5:01, AP 378, IF 1.171, C 96, S 39.6kph
All with 5 minutes of rest.
11% more power than on my last succesfull L5 training (april 9).

Thanks for the advice Dave and John!

__________________
My latest power profile: 5SP: 16.3w/kg | 1MP: 7.7w/kg | 5MP 5.8w/kg | FTP 4.7w/kg
Cycling Forum.info

I am questioning the value of L5 sessions as well when I see the effect on my 2 x 20s. There is some definite match burning that goes along with this type of workout and it seems to take some time to recover. I had a had L5 session on Thursday, then a weekend of spirited group riding for (2 1/2 and 3 hour rides) where I spent some extended time at L5 . When I tried to ride 2 x 20 @90% FTP last night, I was dying. I ended up with a 1 x 20 and 1 x 10. Typically, it is just SST during the week and the ebb and flow of the group on weekends. Throwing in a dedicated L5 session really semed to hamper recovery.