Ibuprofen before Vo2 max workouts? You too? - Page 4

I do it because it's MY perogative. Dependency?? LOL!

It's so nice to know that people really care about my well-being rather than trying to impose that they're "right"...

To further get the goat of you nay-sayers, I participate in a weekly Computrainer time trial series. Tonight I took a couple of Ibuprofen (400mgs) beforehand and averaged my all-time high for wattage on the hilly 25k course. The first 20 minutes hurt significantly but once the Ibuprofen kicked it, it was all good...

Anyone else see the irony????

Come on Tony, you post a query on a public forum. Folks point to accepted research that suggests it really isn't a good idea. A PhD exercise physiologist with deep involvement in cycling tells you exactly why it isn't a very good idea and why it's probably as much placebo as anything else and you get awfully defensive. Why post this stuff if you're not open to feedback?

Yeah, I don't really think you're gonna start mugging folks to feed your Ibuprofen fix But I don't think it's strange that folks tend to push back on prophalactic use of pain killers as an ergogenic aid. Seems like an awful slippery slope to me.

And between the published reasons not to do it (slowed recovery, possible links to renal failure when associated with aerobic exercise, masking legitimate pain) and there being little evidence that it actually does much, you're probably not going to convince a lot of folks here...

But to be fair, I really don't care what you do prior to your CompuTrainer races, and I'm not terribly worried about your health. I'm sure you'll be fine and who'll ever know if you could have recovered better from your workouts, not exactly a controlled experiment here.

Good luck,
-Dave

This is not addressed to Tony, but to others to be careful using NSAIDS in training if you are masking a pain signal.

The following was an event several years ago before getting into cycling and my main training activity was lifting heavy. Link to the Event in 2004
(I'm not sure if you need to be a member to view the link - If so it is not worth joining up to view what I wrote in 2004)

Prior to training legs I used Aleve on a regular basis because my knees were alway tender from squatting heavy. This particular morning I had a slight pain in my right quadricep, but it was not that intense so I used my Aleve to help with my knees and to potentially block the pain in my quadricep. It did exactly what it was supposed to do after several sets of warming the knees felt pretty good and the pain in my leg was not too bad. I was still warming up with intentions of going up to my training weight with 405 lbs., but on the first rep with 315 I heard an audible pop and a ripping sensation in my right quadricep.

Turns out that I had a minor strain in my quadricep that became a major strain (fiber tear).

This is not the same as using NSAIDS for masking training discomfort in the way that Tony is describing, but be careful with the use or at least be aware that you might not feel the pain signal that would have been the early signal to avoiding a long term injury.

In my case I should have listened to the pain signal and not tried to mask it. It would have saved me weeks of misery, detraining and rehab.

Now days I will train without pain relief so that I can be sensitive to the what my body is experiencing under the load. I can feel the difference between training discomfort and a pain signal. At the sign of a pain signal I can determine whether I need to stop or continue, but when the pain is masked you might not know until it is too late.

my two cents

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we are actually talking about the effect of NSAIDs pre exercise not post...

from what i've read not all NSAIDs are created equal... the effect of ibuprofen is different than that of aspirin (ASA), in that aspirin doesn't have the effect of inhibiting recovery and i have personally found this to be the case as well.. pre or post exercise.

This is advice is worth alot more than 2 cents.

I have had some really bad pulls and it was not from pain relievers like Aleve or Advil. It was from just using supps like NO. If you really up the dose beyond the max they recommend you can feel like a friggin superman. I have put some really bad strains on my lats and lower back that way. I learned one scoop if that much max! Not worth the weeks on not being able to lift my arms above my head.

-js

-js

Never did pain relievers as I always thought they slowed down blood flow to work...atleast someone once told me. But you do enough supps like NO/Arginine before a workout it can give you similar feeling of no pain.

Also btw, doesn't caffeine have similar effect of numbing pain? I have heard that form other riders and they always do a double shot of espresso before a race.

-js

this is just a guess because i don't know why it actually works but i don't think it's a matter of numbing pain but has to do with the anti-inflammatory effects... but just a guess...

Thanks for being concerned enough to contribute to this thread...I know it's not because you're trying to impose that you're right...

Do not many people train in such a manner that "isn't a really good idea" for others?? Quickly coming to mind is pro cyclists and their hours upon hours of long, slow distance base miles. Those don't provide the desired training stimulus, do they??

Awfully defensive??? LOL! I suppose you just glossed over the prick-ish responses to my little query???? LOL! I like to respond in kind every now and again - it's fun!!

For my on-going study, today I have NO delayed onset muscle soreness and I feel GREAT after completing the 25k hilly Computrainer time trial at 200lbs. Slowed recovery??? Hardly...I could do another respectable TT today if I wanted. In fact, I subjectively feel stronger. Next week I MAY try doing it without the Ibuprofen just for ***** and giggles...I'll make sure to post how it went if I do...

I've been participating in athletics of all forms since I was 7yo (will be 42 later this month) and I KNOW when I'm doing damage to my body - NSAIDS or not...

It's amazing how so many contributors on this site just fail to see the wisdom in just agreeing to disagree...people and their need to feel like they're "right"...never ceases to amaze me...

It's a Forum. Think how boring it would be if everyone just said "sorry, I disagree but won't bother to articulate why..." The point of a forum is open discussion and in some cases debate. When someone posts their new training plan with no basis in exercise physiology and no understanding of the underlying processes we tend to call them out on it. It's how we learn, teach and investigate different ideas. Why would you expect everyone to just read your post, agree to disagree and not push back when they struggle with your ideas?

Really, I'm not telling you what to take before, during or after workouts but I will point out potential problems as part of a discussion in the larger community. Why else do these boards exist?

-Dave

Disagreement is great, no problem - "****"holish responses are another thing; as are those contributors on this site that always believe their way is the only right way because they have some equivocal study to point to, and wish to impose their "rightness" on others.

I believe in trying different things irrespective of conventional wisdom or some study's results because I have found there is significant individuality in human response to the same stimulus - I am my own study and subject.

Push back is one thing - being prick-ish is another. Again, you may not have read the posts, but I'm always up for a little push back as well - keep things amusing...

Lastly, my post was not an advocation for NSAID use - I was wondering if anyone in addition to myself did so. I was not looking for a debate, but likeminded individuals who occasionally got the same benefit as I...

Fair enough, I think we can agree to agree on this at least

-Dave

Mate it's a public forum. What did you expect, ******* sugar lollipop rainbows with gumdrop fairies prancing around and for everyone to just jump on your band wagon and tell what a great idea it is and what a great guy you are?

People only agree to disagree AFTER the arguing. There wil always be disagreement and I'm afraid darling you're gonna have to man up and learn to take someone else opinion.

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I don't know about others but for me, apart from building and conditioning the body, much of training is about learning to suffer for extended periods of time.

I can understand if you were to take the pain killers before an event/race so as to perceive less pain for that day, but training I thought was where you learnt to deal with it. (think training wheels and race wheels)

I for one would never take anything. I like to see how much I can suffer on my own, without aids.
I also think that your body will hit a performace limit whether you feel the pain or not. You only have so much sustainable power available so it must come down to mental resolve.

But anyway, just my opinions.