Once more: gyming to improve power - Page 4

I reckon Frost will do a 55 or 56 minute ride on a reasonable course. Then on his second 40km tt he'll remember that he didn't feel like "death wamed over" at the end of the previous event and with the extra motivation during an event and the extra bit of adrenaline he'll slay us all and knock out a long 53 or middling 54.

For Frost to not get under 60 minutes with good aerodynamics and 360watts he'll have to ride 24.8 miles on a flat tire, uphill and into a headwind.

The Kilo's duration falls within the Anaerobic Capacity domain of effort.

I am not sure about the exact contribution you could expect from a weight resistance program in this regard. Take two groups of riders, both spending the exact same amount of time preparing to perform over a 1:10 max effort (this effort being totally new for all of them). One group that shares their schedule between Weight Resistance and specific Interval training, the other group spending all their time doing Interval training. Hmmm I am not sure on which group I'd bet my money...

The other thing in your case is that this is kind of new for you. No matter the results you get (without any weight resistance program), these results will be your personal bests. In this context, is investing few hours a week in the gym a good investment? Or should you rather wait to complete at least one season just to come up with some solid numbers while identifying strengths and weaknesses.

The last thing is that you'd like to loose as little FTP as possible. There again, wouldn't you be better off taking the time spent in the gym to maintain FTP (or CTL) instead?

There may be other reason for you to be attracted by Gym work. This I don't know. But from a Career management / Planning perspective, I'd probably wait to have completed one full season sharing your time between preparing for the Kilo while maintaining the FTP before introducing some resistance training to this already complex enough equation.

My feeling would be slightly different if you were preparing for a much shorter effort.

Kilo is about: pure strength (at start), exlosivity (acceleration), anaerobic capacity and aerobic capacity (maintaining the speed). Anaerobic capacity is also related to active muscle mass (more muscle, better H+ buffering capacity), so I think weight training should be quite beneficial for it.

Now you may very well be right with the approach that I could do as well or even better just riding but as I said earlier, it is not that much about what can be achieved but more of what can I learn, to fill my curiosity. Moreover I think even without having even riding a kilo I can recognize at least some of my strengths and weaknesses just eg. looking at the standing starts vs. flying under geared sprints. And finally with the weather (we already have freeze in the mornings) the on bike training options are somewhat limited.
If you look at the plan, it is about 45-60min of gym and maybe about similar time of jump/plyometric exercises per week, so not really excessive. There is still going to be a major investment to FTP/CTL.

I'll be 39 soon, there isn't any career (well there is but it is as an industrial logistics/IT advisor). That's the whole point

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"It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."

Psst, Masters Worlds.

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-Meek
"Some people train to look pretty. I just train so I can be the strongest man there is. And then again, I'm already pretty." -Magnus Samuelsson

Errm, let's start with a local weeknight series first if we ever get the velo here

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"It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."

Dämn, Swampy, I laughed my ä$$ off reading your story (once again), you are one funny guy. You obviously haven't lost the british sense of humour!

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"It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."

You're probably going to realize that the difficulty with the Kilo isn't to start it, but rather to finish it without loosing too much speed. I agree with you that like most relatively short events, most fitness component are involved to a certain extent, but the dominant one here is really the anaerobic capacity.

I see. I am visiting weight resistance training regularly for the same reason. Cheers for this.

Still, for the sake of curiosity, it would have been interesting to compare a full season without (wr training) with a full season with. But this is of a secondary importance probably.

Fairly reasonable indeed. It takes the place of a bike quality workout. It makes sense if you see it that way.

Enjoy your program and thanks for the interesting discussion.

Actually it takes a lot of practice to start perfectly and not lose an easy second or more before you even began...

Finishing takes heart,

Starting takes practice.

or for Frost 'finnishing'

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-Meek
"Some people train to look pretty. I just train so I can be the strongest man there is. And then again, I'm already pretty." -Magnus Samuelsson

Do you train for the Kilo? Do you also train for the 500m?

If so, how close from your best 500m effort are you on the first slit of a kilo?

No, slightest doubt. Just riding 30-40 sec intervals I have very well self-illustrated it and that's where it gets difficult.

I get your point but sorry, the wheels are already turning and with my patience it is practically impossible to stop them now .

Yes, definately thank you too. It is a dialog and I think in best dialogs there should be some difference in views!

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"It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."

I truly appreciate the fact that you can make a distinction between an opportunity to sharpen some point of view and a disrespectful attack.

Besides, I don't know much about track cycling. My concern was more driven by my experience in coaching similar durations for swimmers.

However, there's a huge difference between a track event that lasts 1:10 and a pool event that lasts the same duration. That is, in the pool, we start by a dive. We get our top speed during the first meters of the event (due to the dive). Therefore gaining speed is a no brainer. All we have to do is try not to loose some.

I agree with you that on the track, the strength/power component plays a big role if we are to try and get to the target speed as soon as possible.

Thanks again

So, I made the second gym workout today (don't worry guys, I'm not going to spam each of my workout here ).

I took something from Felt, something from the Aussie coach, re-considerid the approach proposed by Meek and kept my own idea of keeping it simple and low volume.

Deadlift:
Warmup:
12 x 60 kg
5 x 100 kg
(hmm, maybe I have to consider a bit more careful wu, once the weights start to get heavier)
Working series:
3 x 5 x 130 kg

One legged press:
Warmup:
5 x 40 kg + sledge (for both legs)
ws:
5 x 70 kg + s (for both legs)

I did this on purpose with a bit lighter weight to have ballistic extension. I tried to throw the sledge about 5 cm (slowering the sledge was slow and controlled). Regardless it is clearly a week point.

One legged deadlift (luckily there was only my wife and couple of others at the gym ):
I had never done these so form before weights. I started with a barbell but then figured out that it would be much easier with dumbells.
5 x 5 x 25 kg (x2).

A bit of abs and that was it.

There's no reason to try 1 RM at this point and I don't think it would be very wise because of the risk of injury but based on experience I can figure out some sort of starting level to compare.

Tomorrow it will be very interesting to see what kind of influence it has to my bike workout.

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"It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."

You're kidding, right?

__________________
-Meek
"Some people train to look pretty. I just train so I can be the strongest man there is. And then again, I'm already pretty." -Magnus Samuelsson

Be inspired, Odysseus.

YouTube - Standing Start - UK

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Unbelievable, great... nie samowity film