Finding your power niche - how long does it take? - Page 2

Originally Posted by graywulf

What is AWC?

Originally Posted by frost

I think that study is primarily looking at the time of Kilo not average power, which might be a different thing. Due to very high top speed in cycling (comparing to eg. 100m swimming or 400m running) very large proportion of total energy is consumed to reach the top speed as fast as possible. That's why it would pay off to kill yourself at the beginning even if it results lower overall average power.

If you want to "inflate" your 1 min power number on the other hand, search for a climb that lasts for at least 1 min and you can stay out of saddle for the whole duration. In best case it is getting gradually steeper so that your initial speed doesn't change even you accelerate all the time. Then pace the effort but stay standing. AWC is about muscle buffering capacity and more active muscle --> more buffering.

Originally Posted by DancenMacabre

...Dave Ryan has done 1 minute tests before and I think he uses the sprint all-out approach.

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming

Just to be clear, I do jump hard, wayyy too hard at the start of a 1 minute max power effort. But that's still a couple of hundred watts below my best 5 second sprint so 'sprint all-out' needs to be taken in context.

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming

Just to be clear, I do jump hard, wayyy too hard at the start of a 1 minute max power effort. But that's still a couple of hundred watts below my best 5 second sprint so 'sprint all-out' needs to be taken in context.

I haven't posted any decent one minute numbers by shooting for 200% of FTP and riding it steady but I don't try to match my best 100 meter sprint either or I'd never make it through the full minute. That's what I was implying with the 'pacing of a sort' in my previous post. I start 'em hard but I've still got to make it through the minute.

-Dave

Originally Posted by frenchyge

+1.

My best 1-min is ~250% FTP, and was achieved with a hard jump to ~340% FTP over the first 4 seconds, then a nearly linear fading to 194% FTP over the course of the effort. My best 5-sec output is ~435% of that FTP value. I don't think there's anyway that I could ramp it the other direction, nor hold an isopower output for that duration -- the fatigue at the end is just too much.

Bottom line: if you nearly blackout when you finally let off.... you're close enough to call it a successful test.

Originally Posted by DancenMacabre

Are you sure about this whole pacing strategy for 1 minute rather than going all-out?

I have some doubts. Can most people actually sustain > 200% FTP? I know that I can't and have read that others seem to be similar. My 1-minute wattage number is over 250% of FTP. So by your suggestion, I'd have to be able to do a steady 250%+ FTP for 60 seconds? I cannot imagine it.

Have you done a one minute test lately? Which method do you use. I have a decent sprint (13+ w/kg) so for me I think my average is higher if I sprint very hard at the start. By the time I am finished I am about to fall off the bicycle

Dave Ryan has done 1 minute tests before and I think he uses the sprint all-out approach.

Originally Posted by frost

Activation of additional muscle when accelerating standing "all out" in the beginning of the effort (vs. seated paced effort) inflates the number....

Originally Posted by frost

For testing it is better to select a procedure that has relevancy to the discipline in concern (1 min rarely is critical at all) and then standardize the test to have a point for comparision.

Originally Posted by DancenMacabre

By end of the test, I was doing just 155% of FT.

Originally Posted by DancenMacabre

I am no scientist but does it appear like there is some power level beyond which it is not sustainable (45+ seconds) in an isopower fashion?

Originally Posted by DancenMacabre

The group riding suggestion is one of those I hear pretty often. Truth is, I am more than a little intimidated of it. When I can get on the road on weekends, I see these super serious looking cyclists. They do not exactly seem like the type to suffer fools or newbies - (hopefully I am more newbie than fool but who knows...).
Then the fact they fly by me up the hills at speeds I can only reach on the flats is kind of demoralizing.

Originally Posted by SolarEnergy

Think of a pack as a group of friendly birds. Your ability to join them and share a migration with them is crucial.
...............

You should really try it. You'll probably come to realize that the experimented birds are serious, for sure (most have witnessed or participated in group crashes) but they are also very protective with the newbies.

Have fun and learn to fly with packs of birds. For me, it's racing 101.

Originally Posted by frenchyge

I'm going to have to take exception here, as I have used my relatively good 1min ability to good effect winning races by initiating the sprint early and outlasting folks whom I probably couldn't have outsprinted. This is especially useful in uphill finishes where there is little benefit to others trying to sit on my wheel when I make the early jump, and they litterally fizzle out while I gap them to the finish. Then there are the others who don't follow my jump at all, thinking "he's gone too soon and will blow up" while I struggle on in agony to the line.

As such, doing 1min testing with a hard jump out of the saddle (to match the race scenario, most likely) doesn't "inflate" the number, is relevant to the discipline of concern, and is critical for race performance on a decent number of courses around here (ie, uphill sprint finishes).

And, I do all my 1min tests uphill....



That might have been a bit hot at the start, then. You could try starting just a touch under "all-out," as Dave was explaining, and you might gain a little more through pacing, but I don't think the difference will be big. You're right that FTP work would pay off more than squeezing the 1min results for a few extra watts.



I have a hard time believing my result would be as good in an isopower test, but since *that* would be of little relevance in *my* discipline (road racing vs. track events), I can't say I've really tried it. In practice, I want to get the other guys hurting early on so they tapout rather than dragging everyone to the line in isopower fashion and hoping no one has anything left to come around me.

For mostly aerobic efforts, roughly isopower is absolutely the way to go.