Off-season maintenance/training - Page 2

This seems to be my problem with base training; as it is a very 'wooly' (undefined) concept it is dificult to advise others to do it. Also given that it can't be measured its dificult to know when you have it or even know it exists.

I am much happier recomending higher intensity sessions where gains can be measured and we know specificaly the adaptations that are occuring.

This is very imprecise JMAT! This is why in my previous post I was trying to 'pin down' what is effective 'base' training rather than these vague ideas of 'low intensity' (e.g. <55% of MHR is low intensity) and a 'foundation' to build on.

Of course you cannot just start with high intensity intervals, and base is good, but what is base?

A more concrete example such as 150 to 200 hours in 3-4months at a heart rate of 140-155bpm (ie. slightly taxing the aerobic energy systems) would be more guidance.

While I agree 120% that beginner riders can't just do a session of 'high intensity intervals', I see no harm in allowing even very new riders (as long as they have a doctors approval and are obviously in a good state (i.e. not obese, not smoking, etc.)) to do periods of high intensity or a 'reduced' session of intervals.

Why do you not carry over a base or foundation from one season to the next?
Even provding training guidance in this way wouldn't be very good as people would respond differently, to both a given amount of time and a given intensity. People with different training status and ages would obviously need different training advice.

Last time I had my LT tested it fell on 150 bpm, so I could maintain this for a few hours and be quite fatiguing.

I am planning a break in my schedule thru mid-Oct until maybe December, and then firing up again to train for track season (everything but sprints) that starts in late May. I'll have to re-think how much base training I will really need/want.

You may want to remain active, even if thats not on the bike.

Oh, I will be. Serious weight training, along with some rides here and there as I feel like it. Zero structure, though. Just noodling around town.

2LAP, TT'er:

You guys have been riding for a while and you can do what you want as far as your "base" goes. Good luck in finding a proper defintion. I don't think one exists, and if it did, I'm sure many coaches would argue about the details as they do on just about everything else.

Some riders have to train a lot more than others to go the same speed. Some riders might need more of a base than others. Either way, taking someone with zero miles in their legs and dosing them with high-intensity efforts is a recipe for knee problems and is a unecessarily harsh introduction to the sport.

I would like to see at least 1,000-2,000 miles over 1-3 months of easy/moderate aerobic "base" riding before starting high-intensity efforts. I'm not talking about old-school riding at 55% either. I'm talking 75-85% of max heart rate for the most part.

Look at construction techniques for homes/buildings. A few inches of concrete is all you need to support an elaborate structure. Omit a proper foundation, and the strucure will settle, and eventually collapse. The same goes for riders.

Once you have a foundation established, you should keep building on that over the winter. Some riders will never go faster from year to year, and others will steadily improve in category/speed each season.

In the end, it's really up to the individual as to what they what to do with their training time and what they want to accomplish. Either way, a base fitness level will make everything better.

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1000-2000 miles in 1-3 months? Yikes, you'd need to bust out a LOT of hours in that time!

I have a grand total of 9XX miles since I got back on this bike this late Spring. Seems like a lot. Um, hmm, maybe not!

Aztec:

It's really not as bad as it sounds.

2,000 miles/3 months = 166 miles a week (5x33 mile rides/wk.)


1,000 miles/3 months = 83 miles a week
(5x16 mile rides/wk.)

or:

1,000 miles/1 month = 250 miles a week
(5x50 mile rides/wk.)

I know some riders who will lay down 100 miles rides 5 days a week for 2,000 miles a month. This is extreme. The other examples are not.

Generally speaking, most all amateur racers regardless of category train between 125-300 miles a week, with professional riders averaging around 300-500 miles a week.

Happy mileage!!!

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OK. Good point. BUT, then this isn't true base training. This is base training stacked on top of previously-earned excellent levels of fitness. Definitely not first -- or maybe even third -- year volume.

If I were to pop onto the bike and crank those kind of miles, I'd be 1) doing it full time since I'd be so slow!, 2) very, very tired and overtrained, and 3) about 121 pounds!

My 2nd real year of training and I did 2,000 miles in 3months for base. I did more than 166miles per week at the end of base. All on 10-12hours per week with a full-time job. The speed wasn't excessive. But you do need to be consistent in increasing hours and mileage. If you start missing workouts in week 3 then you won't be turning out 200miles easily after 12weeks. With consistent riding this isn't too hard a task for anyone that seriously wants to improve performance. For riders happy to ride a century or leisure riding this is excessive, but that's not what we're talking here.

At first, that did sound like a lot, but then 166 miles = <14mph to 16.6 mph for 10-12 hours. That'd be fast for me, but hopefully not so much next season.

Doing 1000 to 2000 miles in 1 to 3 months (or even doing more) won't make you quick on a bike. J-Mat, you wrote...

'Some riders have to train a lot more than others to go the same speed. Some riders might need more of a base than others.'

...given that the factors determine speed are related to things like VO2 max, LT, economy, etc. Are you suggesting that BASE is attaining a 'level' of VO2 max, etc.?

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J-Mat's not saying it'll make you quick on the bike. What I THINK he's saying is that such base training will allow you to train more intensively later, and attain a higher level of fitness than if you had skipped/skimped on that lower intensity/higher volume work.

2LAP, are you in favor of less volume overall in the offseason, or just ignoring offseason completely and continuing training normally?

what is a watt?

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Umberto

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