The original post also had to do with improving fat metabolism with diet. We have all agreed that bonking is bad. What about reducing carbohydrate intake to induce fat metabolism but not so much that the trainee bonks?

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Thanks Rollers, interesting question and while I haven't seen any data specificaly on this (I don't think any would exist); here is my take....

*Training with low glycogen levels (casued by low carbohydrate intake) will ultimatley reduce exercise capacity through reduced intensity and duration that can be acheived. Riding in a low glycogen state will also be more fatiguing and may result in a lower number of rides being completed in the week as well. This results in a lower capacity to train and adapt.

*Training with low glycogen levels will be difficult as it is difficult to determine glycogen levels (no simple measures) and it would be difficult to avoid glycogen depletion in a single session or following a series of sessions. So, it would be difficult to manage this low glycogen state or know when its at its optimum.

*Should you be able to increase fat meatbolism in this way; why would this 'transfer' or 'carry over' to exercise in a glycogen loaded state (i.e. the state at which you should be racing in).

*Increasing the rate of fat metabolism may benefit the cyclist by delaying glycogen depletion at a given workload; however this is more easily done by eating carbohydrate in training and racing.

*Training in a low glycogen state weakens the immune system more than thraining in a glycogen loaded state.

*Training adapations that alow you to metabolise more fat (i.e. increased aerobic enzymes, increased mitochondion, increased capiliarsation, etc.) are associated with increases in aerobic measures like VO2 max and LT. Training aerobic capacity directly rather than manipulating diet will no doubt increase fat metabolism more. Such training (i.e. intense or long duration) would be hard in a low glycogen state.

*Training in a low glycogen state is not SPECIFIC; as you should not be racing in that state and training in a low glycogen depleted state is unlikely to be the best way of increasing fat metabolism.

*Due to greater work capacity in the glycogen loaded state, there is potential for larger energy expendatures during single exercise bouts. This is important for weightloss given that the main determining factor in weight loss is energy intake v's energy expendature.

Hope this helps and better answers your questions. Perhaps you should consider what your goal is specificaly; specific training is likely to allow you to meet the goals faster than any single dietary manipulation.

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Thanks 2LAP. I think that was a very well-rounded answer to the original post, exactly what I was looking for.

If I read you correctly you believe training in a reduced glycogen state will not result in an enhanced fat metabolism abilitiy. While you do not know this as fact because little or no research exists that you are aware of, the matter does not warrant in-depth investigation because the same or better benefits are achievable via easier to monitor and control, and safer means.

I hope I got that right, because it all seems to fit.

My apologies if you or others thought I was out of line here. I have only been looking for an answer I could understand. Perhaps it was there all along, but I could not see it. I really am just an average guy with below average abilities to understand the intricacies of sports nutrition. Thank you for taking the time to understand my poorly communicated question and my need to read through the response at a more basic level.

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"It's a dog eat dog world Sammy, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson

No probs.

After posting that I got to thinking that following 1 hour of riding at a moderate rate glycogen stores would be quite depleted anyway. At two hours you might start to expect glycogen depletion. Therefore, lots of training would be done in a 'moderate to low glycogen depleted state'. For me at least the important battle is keeping glycogen topped up as much as possible and avoiding complete glycogen depletion for the reasons mentioned above.

This is particularly difficult during high intensity riding, as its hard to get the carbohydrates in and they are being used at a very quick rate. Its tough being a cyclist!!!!

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