Do you think lance is doping? yes or no - Page 42

Is this intentional?

Yawn,yawn,yawn and the beat goes on.

Attached Images

 

__________________
Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Might help me but with all due respect to those that have posted sound debate on both sides, there is no hope for the "Dead Horse" that is this thread.

Attached Images

 

__________________
Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

This discussion is pretty dead......I've read alle sides of the story. I think everyone is smart enough to make there own opinion about doping now. Let's get back to racing........!!

Go ahead and try to talk about road racing. It will be very lonely. Talk about doping, and you will not get anything of substance, but it will be 50 pages long and have 1000's of hits.

Before 1999 who knew fightening cnacer was in fact the #1 way to create a Tour de France winning machine?[/QUOTE]
Good point. I wonder if Coppi's concentration camp detainment helped him out overall. He got pretty damn skinny.

Good point. I wonder if Coppi's concentration camp detainment helped him out overall. He got pretty damn skinny.[/QUOTE]

urrr, I thought it was a POW camp? and don't forget he was a prisoner of the allies!

Let me give you some background on Jan Ullrich.

Ullrich's talent as a cyclist was flagged very early on.
From his early teens, it was evident that JU had the ability to be a great talent.
A colleague of mine at Federation level tells the story of how he saw JU racing as an amateur in 1991. He was beating guys at his own level and guys several years older.

My younger brothers best friend raced against Ullrich in 1993/94, while representing Ireland at amateur level.
Every national team was aware of just how JU was - JU's reputation was already well established and he was unbeatable as an amateur.
Ullrich was pulverising the opposition.

In 1998, I asked Miguel Indurain about his retirement and he commented "I could see Jan Ullrich in my rear view mirror" meaning that he considered JU the next great champion.

I can't say whether JU dopes or not.

What I can say is that he's been consistent and he never miraculously "improved".
And he doesn't write books telling all and sundry that he is clean and works harder than every other professional, ever.

Very very true.

...and we all know Lance was never a great rider before cancer, never a great triathlete, never had a big engine, etc. You are making excuses. You want Lance to get busted for doping so you are willing to say anything because you have some sort of personal dislike for a man you don't even know. My comment about the East German system makes total sense and is based on actual logic, it's too bad you are too closed minded to see it.

And your country didn't have a drug program in operation like the East
Germans ?
So all that stuff from the likes of Dr Wade Exum is balloney ?
Carl Lewis failing drug tests was conjecture too, was it ?

You made a statement suggesting that because JU came from E Germany that it was likely he doped.
I put it to you, that because YOUR country had an active doping program,
LA must be doped.

I also put it to you that if your premise about JU is correct, how come there has never been any suggestion from his team/associates/media of his using PED's ?

Oh that's right, only certain cyclists like LA are targetted.

Unlike JU, a lot of circumstantial and hearsay evidence seems to implicate
LA.

I made a statement about the East German system, which was very well known, in response to the "proof" you and your pro-doping buddies provide about Lance. What I said is just as believable, more so to people with any knowledge of sports systems of communist nations. I did not say Jan was doping, but don't let that stop you. The problems in the US system are just coming out and we are still sifting through what is true and what is untrue, unlike the East German system where we know what was done. Unfortunately some people just can't open their minds to get past their irrational desire for one person to get busted, so they read what they want to read, despite what's actually written.

So you despise yourself? LOL

I despise people who lie and tell half-truths to try to make their point. I consider you and your minions to be pro-doping because you delight in seeing people get busted and spend all of your time hoping for more, all of your time trying to prove that everyone is doping. You love doping, if not you wouldn't revel in it. If you loved the sport of cycling you would not have 99.9% of your 600+ posts about doping.

Just once I would like to you show some actual proof of one of your assertions, not "so and so was a teammate with so and so" etc. but real proof. Of course this is a challenge and we all know that you never have the balls to accept a challenge, so I will expect the same old BS coming from you.

You made an unsubstantiated statement about the East German system post 1989. You claimed systemic doping still continued in East Germany after unification (in 1989 JU was 15 and an amateur until 1992). The evidence is to the contrary from the following:

1. East German doping programs were government funded. The unification process of the new unified Germany was totally administrated by the former West Germany. House, pray tell, how the former East German doping machine could now obtain government funding?

2. After unification, the economy of the former East Germany suffered a huge slump with massive unemployment and industrial production halved. House, not an environment to raise private funding to replace government funding for doping, don't you think?

On another note, following up Limerickman's point. The US sports system have in the past supported unofficial doping of its athletes. If you read the book "The Lords of the Rings" about the exposure of the Samaranch Olympic system you will find an interesting revelation.

In 1984 in preparation of the LA games, USOC funded a drug education program. It was believed this was funded to prepare athletes mentally for the process of drug testing. No. It was to educate them how long it would take various drugs to clear the system to avoid a positive drug test.

__________________
VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

Do you mean the Merckx thread where you insisted there was no proof of this on the internet because it was from the 70's (no in another post you said 88) and when I called you out on it you ran away and hid(just like you have done every time i challenge you)then someone found it and you suddenly come rushing back in? LOL

A coward is someone who is challenged and will not accept it, thus you are the definition of the word...at least on this forum! LOL

What lies? How about the number of time I have challenged you to show me where I said what you claim i said? Oh wait you are too big of a coward to step up to challenge. LOL

I can't wait to read your next squirming, delusional response. LOL