My experince with drugs and blood doping - Page 3

Felony criminal offense. Any person who uses a drug which is a prescription only pharmacutical and does so without that drug being prescribed lawfully by a licensed physician is committing a felony. I myself ride for enjoyment of the sport, pushing my personal limits, the rush of being shoulder to shoulder at 30 miles an hour. I don't ride so I can commit felonies and jeopardize my health and career.

Dopers are criminals.

yes dopers are criminals, but in this case Alex B, you are calling them criminals to take away from TiMan's credibility. Just because someone is a criminal does not mean that it is impossible and or very difficlut for them to tell the truth. You are simply using an "appeal to authority" argument. IN other words, you believe that since criminals have no authority, then they can not be credible. I'm sorry, but if Scott Peterson said 2+2 equals 4, i would believe him, even tho he is a criminal.

i for one, think that we should applude TiMan for his candidness and for giving us his insights into elite level racing.

__________________
it never get easier, you just get faster.

What has he really told us about "elite level racing" besides the fact that even as a doper he couldn't get a contract to do it? If this is part of the dopers 12 step program to admit his problem here, thats fine, but I really don't know what it says about Lance Armstrong of "elite level racing" as a whole...

Are you kidding me?? Cortisteroid, that's all you could come up with? That finding never developed into a charge and therefore his record is still clean. As far as the UCI is concerned, he has a spotless record. I choose to believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty. I'm not one to attack someone else based upon unproven and preemptive accusations. That would be no different than Bush and his attack on Iraq. You probably voted for him too. And I never said Carmichael has training secrets, I said Armstrong was lucky enough to come across the perfect training program to contour his own personal strengths. You are right, many of these aspects of racing have been around and tested for years, and are common knowledge...but none of them have gone through the fine-tuning that Armstrong has put them through, and that's what separates him from the crowd.
As for who I am, don't presume to know how old I am or what I am about either. I have been racing for years, I ride with Cat 1 racers every week, and I am related to two pros. I know these guys very well. They are family men and women. They have children, and full time jobs, and they are dedicated to that aspect of their lives. Cycling to them comes in a very close second, but second nonetheless. They have high moral standards and excellent work ethics. These are the things that are important to them, and therefore doping is not even in the equation. Achieveing something on the bike without drugs and on their own is what is most important as it mirrors the more important aspects of their lives. And despite not doping, they still have achieved amazing wins. They also have gone through terrible losses, and know how to lose with dignity. So your other accusation that top Cat 1 riders dope (although I am sure many do) is simply unfounded, and I might add that you should be ashamed of yourself for ever doping in the first place. That simply goes to show a lack of character on your part, and detracts from any credibility you think you have when it comes to making such accusations about Armstrong, or others you know nothing about.

You just lost your house.
This has been said over and over again.
Men who have lost one testis from cancer, trauma or whatever do NOT need or receive testosterone shots. Their other testis makes plenty to compensate.

Lance's cancer doctors have been asked this over and over: he does not receive any medication whatsoever, including testosterone. They were asked this by the French media in 1999 and because of the doubts Lance gave his doctors permission to discuss the details of his medical treatment. I don't think these internationally renowned doctors have much vested interest in lying for Lance, their careers and livelihoods depend on being honest.

In addition, Lance has repeatedly stated that his medical forms submitted to the UCI and to race officials have no medication on them, and that his is one of the few that doesnt have prescription medication on them--like Beloki and Galdeano taking inhaled medication for asthma.

It says that a person can increase they sustainable powr output by over 20% in 4 months with the epo...and recover very quickly with testosterone.

Yes.....his excuse and quickly produced doc script for a cream worked and there was no charge. But as I said before.....nobody uses a cream with a corticosteroid in it because it thi ns the skin...that's commonly know. AND....the riders and their doctors know excatly what is in every product they use and they would never miss a seeing a corticosteroid.

Yeah, and aliens have landed on earth because I saw a strange light in the sky last night. You're grasping at straws man...grasping at straws. Nobody is perfect and I'm sure that somewhere in the history of pro cycling, a medication was accidentally overlooked by a team doctor or racer. You sound about as intelligent as Tom Cruise does when he denounces the entire psychiatric community as a bunch of quacks based on his knowledge of Scientology.

I have been around on the board for along time but never posted much.

I am talking about my past experience now because I am tired of hearing all those bro's out there that think the sport is clean at a high level.

The truth is the higher the level the more the doping.

I knew I would get some flames a I mentioned "Lance" but I just had to throw in some stuff on him because there are so many that actually believe this guy.

As I mentioned you don't have to catch a guy red handed to know that he is on something. When someone all of a sudden starts to kick butt when in the near past it was different then you know somethings up.

Elite riders know that you are 98% "there" by the age of 25....the rest comes form experience and a little boost in lactate threshold up to about age 30 tops.

Lance was caught with a corticosteroid in his system and that is proof BUT people bought the cover-up so they disregard that.....Lance visited Ferarri at least 10 times and sometimes for days and the only thing he ever did for the sport was to tell riders how to dope and especially how to beat the "tests"....this is a HUGE smoking gun because that's ALL ferarri did....NOT A DAMN THING ELSE.

Lemond knew that all Ferarri did was advise on doping and how to beat tests.....and I am glad he had the balls to speak up when he did.

But you know what... I think I am done on this post now. I don't want to beat my head against the wall talking with some on this forum that are kids(not you) and don't know a damn thing about what racing at Cat 1 is like in the USA or europe. I lived it, I experienced it for 13 LONG YEARS. I saw guys use drugs....I talked with MANY as well....we exchanged info.....I saw careers TAKE OFF and drug users get pro contracts and I saw guys refuse to take drugs and never "make it". But I am glad that I did see guys turn pro that I think never used drugs.

Sadly the sport that I love it not all about genetics and hard work....it's about much more....you have to throw in politcis, knowing the right people, and plenty of drugs into the equation. Yes there are some that do fairly well without drugs but NONE of the very best riders on the four teams that I raced on over 13 years were clean. I knew them all very well. I became a "very best" with the drugs but you know what, I didn't feel like "a very best" ....I felt like a cheater. I am glad I stopped when I did.

As a side.....Notice that the euro's don't flame me...it's because they know more than us Americans due to their exposure.

Armstrong's performance was already among the gods of triathletes when he was a young teenager. I suppose he was doping then too, right? Bottom line...if someone is a proven doper, you have a right to bash them. If someone is not a proven doper, don't claim to "know" that they are. And certainly don't bash an unproven doper who has raised millions of dollars for cancer through the dope infested sport of cycling itself.

My intent was to state a facet of the doping situation that is often overlooked when doping is discussed. My intent was to bring the criminal side of doping into the discussion. I did not intend to attack Timan's credibility or use the "appeal to authority" argument. Please explain the logic that you used to arrive at the conclusion that I used the "appeal to authority" argument.

I never stated that a criminal does not have credibility or lacks the ability to tell the truth. I said that a doper is a criminal.

I do agree that Timan's candor is refreshing.

Alex

Armstrong is a doper as he had a corticosteroid in his system...he has been caught!!!...but most believe his cover up. Don't you get it bro......riders don't just "miss" seeing a corticosteroid in a medicine...it does not happen. The team doc goes over everything with a "fine tooth comb". And besides no rider in his right mind would ever use a cream with a corticosteroid because, as I said, it thins the skin and this all Cat 2 riders and above know.

Armstrong has great genetics this is true but you don't turn a quarter horse into a throughbred without a lot of tinkering.......he was a decent classics rider that did poorly in grand tours(quarter horse)...then he comes out of nowhere to not only do well in grand tours but to KILL everyone(thoroughbred)...and all this starts out of the blue at age 27......NOT!

Again, thank you for your candor, TIMan.

I understand that you may want to bow out of this discussion since it has (inevitably) turned into a flame match.

However, if you feel able, perhaps you could elucidate how the drugs actually made you feel on this bike? Was it like suddenly having a new engine ,like going from a Ford to a Ferrari, or was it more subtle than that. Or were the effects more to do with the ability to recover from high work loads, thus enabling one to effectively train harder and longer?

I remember Kimmage stating that he just didn't feel the pedals when he doped, that it was almost effortless. I'm not sure what he was taking, maybe some amphetamine rather than EPO, which wasn't widely available in the 80's. perhaps you can elaborate?

I felt very strong very quickly. Now in training, improvement" very quickly" mean in a matter of weeks.
In 12 weeks my sustainable power went fro 350 to 420 and then peaked at 440 after 4 months. I FELT LIKE SUPERMAN frankly....and funy thing is I had a hard time getting that terrible "burning" feeling that we all experience once past threshold and into the anaerobic zone.
Without a doubt the epo was better than the testosterone but the testosterone did help me recover between very hard workouts very quickly. I think the epo helped too.


The testosterone allowed me to get to my lowest ever body fat percentage at about 3.5%...and I lost NO MUSCLE MASS in the process and in fact my legs got a little bigger.

My sex drive was through the roof from the high testosterone levels...poor wife he he he. The scary thing is that even average looking girls would look good

So yes one feels great on epo and testosterone....physically that is....but I felt bad psychologically. I felt like the cheater I was...even though I knew many others where doping.

The "last straw" for me was when I saw another very good rider inject himself in a hotel room that we shared. For some reason that scene hit me hard and I decided that if I didn't get a pro contract by the end of the season I would never juice again.....never got the contract and never juiced again....but my buddy that I saw inject did go on to become a pro, even though I was a better rider than him.

No, your story told us that YOU did that. Your story about doping included nothing that told me that the elite riders all did it other than a baseless claim that you "know" they do. You also said others turned pro and did well without drugs. None of this is new. Flyer has told everybody here that "all the elite riders do it" ad nauseum, and the only thing different about your story here is that you admit to doing it and still being unable to get a contract to turn pro. Other than that, every statement you have made is simply another "I know LA dopes because everybody else does" line with no backup whatsoever. I would say that I appreciate your candor in admitting your own cheating, but I think your candor is misplaced. You aren't proving anything against LA by telling us your cheating story, and continuing the whole "everybody does it" line while also telling us that "some people went pro and did well without it" or "I cheated and couldn't get a contract" is totally contradictory and proves nothing about elite cycling or LA. Sorry if that offends you, as your story is quite interesting, but in the end tells us nothing new about the topics of elite racing or LA. It simply says you cheated and it didn't work out for you...