My experince with drugs and blood doping - Page 4

Roadie_scum · #46 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMan

I felt very strong very quickly. Now in training, improvement" very quickly" mean in a matter of weeks.
In 12 weeks my sustainable power went fro 350 to 420 and then peaked at 440 after 4 months. I FELT LIKE SUPERMAN frankly....and funy thing is I had a hard time getting that terrible "burning" feeling that we all experience once past threshold and into the anaerobic zone.
Without a doubt the epo was better than the testosterone but the testosterone did help me recover between very hard workouts very quickly. I think the epo helped too.

The testosterone allowed me to get to my lowest ever body fat percentage at about 3.5%...and I lost NO MUSCLE MASS in the process and in fact my legs got a little bigger.

My sex drive was through the roof from the high testosterone levels...poor wife he he he. The scary thing is that even average looking girls would look good

So yes one feels great on epo and testosterone....physically that is....but I felt bad psychologically. I felt like the cheater I was...even though I knew many others where doping.

The "last straw" for me was when I saw another very good rider inject himself in a hotel room that we shared. For some reason that scene hit me hard and I decided that if I didn't get a pro contract by the end of the season I would never juice again.....never got the contract and never juiced again....but my buddy that I saw inject did go on to become a pro, even though I was a better rider than him.

When you say your sustainable power was 440W, how did you measure it and how long could you sustain that for? And what was your body mass? That is an absolute elite figure and it is beyond stunning that you didn't get a contract if you could put out that number for than 30-40 minutes.

Ashley3 · #47 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ives

Again, thank you for your candor, TIMan.

I understand that you may want to bow out of this discussion since it has (inevitably) turned into a flame match.

Yes, thanks for the candor and the insight. I've been reading this fourm for quite a while and this is one of the most interesting discussions I've come upon. There's been a bit of an edge to it, but given the passions involved it's been surprisingly civil.
It is a debate of Armstrong's place in history that will outlive us all. I wonder, however, if in time the drug question will fall by the wayside, much as it has with Eddie Merckx who, although being caught doping more than once, is generally acknowledged as the best rider in history?

TiMan · #48 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadie_scum

When you say your sustainable power was 440W, how did you measure it and how long could you sustain that for? And what was your body mass? That is an absolute elite figure and it is beyond stunning that you didn't get a contract if you could put out that number for than 30-40 minutes.

I could hold 440 for 45 minutes on a trainer with power meter . I was 5'8.5" tall and 145 pounds.
Ya that buddy of mine that I mentioned...that turned my stomach while injecting....was doing the same test right beside me and could only hold 420 watts and he weighed about the same as me....yet he did get a contract. But he was only 21 years old and I am sure that had a lot to do with it.

The better "continental pro's " can hold 440 plus wattage for an hour....Armstrong can hold over 500 for an hour.

I was 32 years of age so I think that's why I didn't get a contract...even though I was winning a lot of races. "They" are looking for 18-21 year olds much of the time or 25 years olds tops...for long term developement and building.

Lots of older guys have great(pro level) sustainable power output but you have to be in right place at the right time to get a pro contract....and part of this is impressing them as a young rider.

I remember Greg Lemond winning a very big race in Arizona(Bisbee tour) at age 16....boy did that make them sit up and take notice.

Roadrash Dunc · #49 08-05.-2005

We all know cycling isnt clean.
We all know what EPO does.
Nothing youve posted sheds any light on pro racing whatsoever.

Youre obviously a guy with a chip on his shoulder about something so felt the need to get some attention going on here whilst slandering the highest profile bike racer.
You arent a cat1 pro and you havent taken EPO.

Regardless IF you did , it doesnt mean EVERYONE in pro cycling does.Thats just retarded logic , but then i guess im a moron for trying to logically talk to a retard.
Tell us your real name or **** off and do something constructive with yourself.

ps: if you really wanted people to belive what you said , you should have kept totally neutral about other riders.As soon as you name someone (in this case Lance - especially in this case) you lose all objectivity and it becomes clear youre just having a dig.

Roadie_scum · #50 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMan

I could hold 440 for 45 minutes on a trainer with power meter . I was 5'8.5" tall and 145 pounds.
Ya that buddy of mine that I mentioned...that turned my stomach while injecting....was doing the same test right beside me and could only hold 420 watts and he weighed about the same as me....yet he did get a contract. But he was only 21 years old and I am sure that had a lot to do with it.

The better "continental pro's " can hold 440 plus wattage for an hour....Armstrong can hold over 500 for an hour.

I was 32 years of age so I think that's why I didn't get a contract...even though I was winning a lot of races. "They" are looking for 18-21 year olds much of the time or 25 years olds tops...for long term developement and building.

Lots of older guys have great(pro level) sustainable power output but you have to be in right place at the right time to get a pro contract....and part of this is impressing them as a young rider.

I remember Greg Lemond winning a very big race in Arizona(Bisbee tour) at age 16....boy did that make them sit up and take notice.

What was the power measuring device (computrainer, polar, SRM, powertap?) and when/how was it calibrated?

145 pounds is about 66kg so with 440 watts as a funtional threshold that yields 6.7W/kg. This is above world class on Andy Coggan's table of expected power over various durations for different level athletes. It is also higher than the 6.5W/kg Ric Stern reports as required for GC riders in the Tour de France, which has been described as the current ceiling for human performance ~1 hour.

I train with an (admittedly young) US pro who does 440 watts for his 3-4 minute efforts. He has finished reasonably well in NRC races, but no way is he riding those 440 watts for too much longer than that (maybe 6-8 minutes max I would guess). This meshes well with Ric Stern's suggestion that Cat 1's normally reach ~450W for MAP tests - the end of an MAP test normally represents a power that can be held for maybe 5 minutes.

Further, Nathan O'Neill reports being able to hold 430W for around 30-40 minutes when TTing well, and Mick Rogers ~450W for his TT world championship.

I'm interested in what you have to say, but I'd like some clarification as the numbers you are giving don't seem quite credible and I suspect your equipment was incorrectly calibrated (SRM's for example are particularly sensitive to temperature and humidity changes). I can happily believe 350W as your starting point though.

Roadrash Dunc · #51 08-05.-2005

And now youre saying you have a power output of 6.7w/kgm for 45 minutes.About the same as Armstrong.

Please , quit while youre only a little bit behind.Pinocchio has nothing on you.
Your pants on fire?

Roadie_scum · #52 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadrash Dunc

We all know cycling isnt clean.
We all know what EPO does.
Nothing youve posted sheds any light on pro racing whatsoever.

Youre obviously a guy with a chip on his shoulder about something so felt the need to get some attention going on here whilst slandering the highest profile bike racer.
You arent a cat1 pro and you havent taken EPO.

Regardless IF you did , it doesnt mean EVERYONE in pro cycling does.Thats just retarded logic , but then i guess im a moron for trying to logically talk to a retard.
Tell us your real name or **** off and do something constructive with yourself.

ps: if you really wanted people to belive what you said , you should have kept totally neutral about other riders.As soon as you name someone (in this case Lance - especially in this case) you lose all objectivity and it becomes clear youre just having a dig.

I'm no fan of drugs in cycling and I agree it doesn't help to slander other riders, but man, keep a civil tongue in your head and let people hold their own opinions. It doesn't do you well to come out swearing and insulting people and then claim to have rationality on your side. I feel some interesting things are being said in this thread - if you don't, feel free to read a different one.

Roadrash Dunc · #53 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadie_scum

I'm no fan of drugs in cycling and I agree it doesn't help to slander other riders, but man, keep a civil tongue in your head and let people hold their own opinions. It doesn't do you well to come out swearing and insulting people and then claim to have rationality on your side. I feel some interesting things are being said in this thread - if you don't, feel free to read a different one.

The thread is an interesting discussion about EPO and for ti-man we have him to thank.But ive no time for internet liars so i'll call a spade a spade.
He knows how he can make me eat humble pie.Give his name.Otherwise , start a debate on epo properly - without all the bluster and bs , otherwise expect to get called on it.It is the net afteall , and im free to read and comment on what i like (but which doesnt include slander and telling porky pies)

TiMan · #54 08-05.-2005

We used the first gen SRM power meter.

I guess I am done with this thread...too many insults, defensive people and closed minds. Thanx goes out to all that were civil to me and discussed things like adults....
there are a lot of kids on this forum I think.

All I can say in closing is that I have told you all the truth.....
Yes I did attain to continental pro level sustainable power output, with the use of drugs, but it means nothing really.

I cannot tell you who I am because then people could find me and hassle me and my young family. I don't want to hurt my former teams or anyone that I used to race with either.

BYE

TiMan

Roadrash Dunc · #55 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMan

We used the first gen SRM power meter.

I guess I am done with this thread...too man insults.

All I can say in closing is that I have told you all the truth.....
Yes I did attain to continental pro level sustainable power output, with the use of drugs, but it means nothing really.

I cannot tell you who I am because then people could find me and hassle me and my young family. I don't want to hurt my former teams or anyone that I used to race with either.

BYE

TiMan

Disappearing to yahoo messenger to pretend youre a 21 year old Nympho who likes older men now? Bye.

ives · #56 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadie_scum

I'm no fan of drugs in cycling and I agree it doesn't help to slander other riders, but man, keep a civil tongue in your head and let people hold their own opinions. It doesn't do you well to come out swearing and insulting people and then claim to have rationality on your side. I feel some interesting things are being said in this thread - if you don't, feel free to read a different one.

Agreed.
If you can't at least be civil, Roadrash Dunc, then please I request that you leave out the personal insults and swearing. Being brash and rude does not make you right, so please, refrain from it.
thank you.

Quote:

there are a lot of kids on this forum I think.

So, it seems.

Anyway, thanks for you testimony, TIMan. Most interesting and informative.

Roadie_scum · #57 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMan

We used the first gen SRM power meter.

I guess I am done with this thread...too many insults, defensive people and closed minds. Thanx goes out to all that were civil to me and discussed things like adults....
there are a lot of kids on this forum I think.

All I can say in closing is that I have told you all the truth.....
Yes I did attain to continental pro level sustainable power output, with the use of drugs, but it means nothing really.

I cannot tell you who I am because then people could find me and hassle me and my young family. I don't want to hurt my former teams or anyone that I used to race with either.

BYE

TiMan

Thanks mate. Appreciate your candour.

Roadrash Dunc · #58 08-05.-2005

Its not a question of right and wrong.
If it means anything Ti-Man i genuinely apologise for getting personal there (having a bad day fixing a bike

) but part of your initial post was rather moronic thats all , although its no reason to call you one.

I still dont believe your personal claims and think youre using that invented persona to gain some form of credibility to the dope debate.Which is highly ironic.

You declined to proffer a name even though you say youre retired (although i can understand that) but you dont even say which team(s) you were on or which races you won.
You cannot expect credibility in such a situation.I could quite easily start a new a/c and pretend to be a pro who doped but say i didnt think *everyone* was doing it , or this that and the other.You can see that.

Its a sad day indeed when people are prepared to take the word of a self confesed cheat , an anonymous self confessed cheat , on an internet MB over the word(s) of face-value hardworking pros.
That i cannot understand , perhaps someone can enlighten me and tell me why i should believe a single word in this situation.

Its a good read , but youre all bonkers

G'night.

Nishiki09 · #59 08-05.-2005

I totaly disagree with what you say about Lance Armstrong. If he ever had anything slightly close in comparison to a drug in his body we would know within 24 hours of when he did it. He is the most drug tested athlete in the world. If he was blood doping,taking testosterone, or even drinking a Sobe Power hed be getting critisized for it right now by people who dislike him (ahem). Im not saying Lance Armstrong is some hero but I know he doesnt artificially enhance himself.

Roadie_scum · #60 08-05.-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nishiki09

I totaly disagree with what you say about Lance Armstrong. If he ever had anything slightly close in comparison to a drug in his body we would know within 24 hours of when he did it. He is the most drug tested athlete in the world. If he was blood doping,taking testosterone, or even drinking a Sobe Power hed be getting critisized for it right now by people who dislike him (ahem). Im not saying Lance Armstrong is some hero but I know he doesnt artificially enhance himself.

I have no idea whether armstrong uses drugs or not, but if he did (protectors of LA's virtue - note use of conditional) it is unlikely he would get caught. There are numerous drugs and illegal methods that are undetectable with today's testing methods. The two things to which you refer, blood doping and taking testosterone (when monitored to avoid going over the threshold testosterone-epitestosterone level) are, ironically, both undetectable. I know this and I am an amateur cyclist who has never used a performance enhancing drug and hve no specific expertise or training in sports science or medicine. I'm pretty sure any pro who is going to take drugs would have access to better info again.

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