American Dope Mashines

Landis tested positive, at least he is a sympatic guy, at least he left most of stage wins to others.

Hamilton tested positive, at least he is a sympatic guy.

But the biggest cheater in the tour history is PHARMSTRONG. He got his "talent" to win the tour in the hospital. And he took all stages he could get and 7 tour wins. A really bad character. And in USA he is still the "king of cycling"!

Is'nt USA the leader in Bio-Tech? Is'nt USA underdeveloped in "fight against doping"? Is'nt it so, that in USA they try to hide the stars who dope (for example Carl Lewis)

So lets get this right

2 guys you like test positive, but thats OK, because you thought they were nice.

1 guy you don't like never tests positive, but he's the devil incarnate and doped because you don't like him.

I love the logic.

Hamilton and Landis were riding for Phonak, a Swiss team.

__________________
Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

so - obviously ullrich was doped in tour 2005 and also basso (both were not tested positive) - and i guess also the years befor.

pharmstrong dominated the tour 2005.

If you believe he was not doped, nobody can help you!

(By the way, also pharmstrong was tested positive in tour 1999)

I don't remember Armstrong testing positive in 1999. This is interesting! Do you have a link to this information?

__________________
Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

I don't know who doped and who didn't, but at least I don't base my "knowledge" of who is guilty based solely on whether or not I like their pesonalities. Its OK to not like a rider - I don't care for Simoni (big mouth whiner IMHO), but I don't accuse him of being a doper just because I don't like him.

armstrong doped as well as 90% of the protour riders. but, its a great thing for the sport that armstrong never tested positive, the american public would turn there backs on the sport even more than they already do. armstrong has a great story and people like that he came from nothing had cancer and won the tour, it has brought tons of new people into the sport, if we ever find out that armstrong tested positive all that'll be lost.


the other thing that bugs me is that no other sports are tested as much as cycling. look at basketball, football, baseball, thats were all the big money is 10-15million dollars a year, i guarantee that there are more dopers in those sports than cycling, but why isn't it tested?? WADA and USADA need to get there acts together and not just pick on cycling.

[QUOTE=m.indurain]
But the biggest cheater in the tour history is PHARMSTRONG. He got his "talent" to win the tour in the hospital. And he took all stages he could get and 7 tour wins. A really bad character. And in USA he is still the "king of cycling"!
QUOTE]

Im sorry, i must have missed something in the 14 years that Armstrong raced as a professional, but can you tell me what drug tests he failed?

With all the positive drug tests going on in cycling these days, I myself have wondered about Lance, and I hope I am not being Naive, but Lance has had hundreds of drug tests and to my knowlege never failed one. Can you please explaing how he is the biggest cheater in tour history?

Besides I would rather side with Lance than with winners like **** Pound, Franky Andreiu and Greg Lemond calling foul ball on Lance.

BTW anyone want my autographed poster of Greg Lemond? Its sitting out in my dumpster. Used to be a big fan of his til he started throwing out accusations about someone he never raced with.

You f-ing idiot... more Europeans been named than Americans... it's called Operacion Puerto

Astana Wurth: Michele Scarponi (ITA), Marcos Antonio Serrano (ESP), David Etxebarria (ESP), Joseba Beloki (ESP), Angel Vicioso (ESP), Isidro Nozal (ESP), Unai Osa (ESP), Jaksche Joorg (GER), Giampaolo Caruso (ITA)

CSC: Ivan Basso (ITA)

Caisse D'Epargne-Iles Baleares: Constantino Zaballa (ESP)

Saunier Duval: Carlos Zarate (ESP)

AG2R: Francisco Mancebo (ESP)

T-Mobile: Jan Ullrich (GER), Oscar Sevilla (ESP)

Phonak: José Enrique Gutierrez (ESP), José Ignacio Gutierrez (ESP)

Communauté de Valence: Vicente Ballester (ESP), David Bernabeu (ESP), David Rodriguez (ESP), José Adrian Bonilla (ESP), Juan Gomis Lopez (ESP), Eladio Jimenez Sanchez (ESP), David Latasa (ESP), Ruben Plaza (ESP), José Luis Martinez (ESP), Manuel Llorent (ESP), Antonio Olmo (ESP), David Munoz (ESP), Javier Cherro (ESP), Javier Pascual (ESP, former rider and current technicien)

Unibet.com: Carlos Garcia Quesada (ESP)

Previously retired or suspended for doping: Roberto Heras (ESP), Angel Casero (ESP), Santiago Perez (ESP), Tyler Hamilton (USA), Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (ESP)


So actually, EUROPEAN DOPE MACHINES

__________________
TrekDedicated no more

Orbea Orca
Full Dura-Ace
Mavic Ksyrium ES Wheels

Wake Forest Cycling

The Small Biz. Guru

The difference here it's that Europeans dope at Spain and North Americans dope at Denver, and there is no "Operacion Puerto" going on at "clean" US soil.

It's not so complicated.

__________________
Sorry, English is not my primary language.

[QUOTE=Sektor7]Pharmstrong was tested positive in Tour 99 on cortecoids. His team had a "good explanation" (good to prevent a scandal) and he could continue the tour, but with today rules he would be taken out of the tour ... by the way: other riders were taken out of the tour, even with same "explanation".

If you are not positive as a rider says nothing: Ullrich never had positive tests during the tour, but he doped (massiv at least last year) for sure, what the fuentes-scandal shows. So you think Pharmstrong could win last year against the "biggest talent in cycling ot the century" (said by Eddy Merckx about Ullrich), when Ullrich was full with drugs. You must be really naive!

The fight against doping must be done also from the law and the authorities. But what do you do in USA against? Nothing! You even hide it (CARL LEWIS is one of this very bad US-Examples!!!)

Where does this mentality "They are good riders so they must be doping" come from?

Whey can't a rider win because the spend every waking hour preparing for the tour?

If you look at transcripts and interviews Lance was very open about saying 'Test me'. He also spent his entire year training and preparing for one race.

Throw in some 'natural talent' and you have someone who is a winner.

Whether he did drugs or not to win who will ever know for 100% sure but my love of cycling and faith in human nature says I should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Everyone though Landis' stage 17 comeback was suspect, but we need to choose to believe in our sport rather than trash the heroes.

He is innocent until proven guilty. Even then, all the information is filtered through layers and layers of people and media. The only person who knows for sure is Landis.

__________________
I'm pretty sure theres more to life than being really really good looking, and one day I hope to find out what that is...

Your limited knowledge is showing through.

The USA is currently under a methamphetamine epidemic that is destoying entire communities from people in poverty through the middle class and yet despite this epidemic the issue of PED's has been in the all over the upper levels of our political system and is still being discussed. The senators are looking into the issue of PED'S far more deeply than other important issues. I wouldn't call that hiding it or not confronting it would you?

There are other countries around the world where one can go in off the street and buy PED's over the counter at a pharmacy, but one cannot do that in America unless they have a true medical need.

and for which team they rode befor with the same or even more power? do'nt you remember landis during the tour 2004?

and: do you know for which team heras rode befor?

sure, they were clean 1st. Then they changed the team and they doped.

you are kidding!

I can understand not liking **** Pound or Lemond, but what's the problem with Andreu? From what I understand, he didn't even want to testify against Armstrong, but was legally forced to do so. And then the testimony was supposed to be sealed, but was leaked by somebody (not Andreu, as far as I know). What ulterior motive could he have had?

Seriously. If you know, tell me, because I know I don't have all the info on this.