Is it true Lance Armstrong was cheating? - Page 3

If you had actually understood the study then you would realize it is about false negatives not false positives. The threshold for a positive is so high that samples that obviously contain artificial EPO are still declared negative. That is how Bernhard Kohl, according to him, was able to pass two hundred tests even though one hundred of them should have been positive.

Both developers of the EPO test, Robin Parisotto and Michael Ashenden, have said that the retrospectively tested 1999 urine samples show that Armstrong was using EPO.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

If you had bothered to read the link I gave, you moron, then you could have read the interview by the co-developer of the test for EPO. He reviewed all the labwork for Armstrong's retrospectively tests and concluded that Armstrong was obviously using EPO. It does not matter whether his interview is available on the Internet, printed on paper, or chiseled in stone.

Clearly taking the time to research the facts is beyond you. I am done with you. It is useless to argue with people who are not only ignorant but are too stupid to take the time to cure their ignorance.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

................and given that synthetic EPO cannot metabolise of it's own accord and can only be contained in a sample if ingested by the person being tested, then the results would appear to be conclusive.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

I am glad you are done, since you bring absolutely nothing to the table. You are just a "Rumor Mill". It's actually amazing that you have enough sense to ride a bicycle....Maybe I am speculating on that and you don't actually ride a bike and you spend most of your time/life spreading rumors around on various forms like some teenage high school girl. Get a life, grow up, stop sniffing seats and stop being a Internet Idiot .....

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Scott CR1 Pro
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It’s not an internet rumour.

The facts presented by Brodeal have been reported upon and commented upon by various organisations and media outlets.
(L’Equipe, Chatennay-Malabre, Cyclingnews, Velonews) for several years.

If there was no basis to what has been alleged, why have each of the above (and many others) commented directly upon the
matter?
In addition, if there was no basis for those allegations, why would each of the above (and many others) deliberately lie?

And finally, if there was no basis for those allegations, why would each of the above (and many others) run the risk
of being sued for libel/slander?

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

I have been looking for good "rumor mill" so I can get my rumors direct.
Paying retail sucks!

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Just consider the source. The internet is full of garbage and just because you can read this garbage on the internet does not make it fact. This is all that I am implying. I can put information on a web site that says "YOU" do drugs and everyone that reads the info on this site will now believe limerickman is a drug head.
This is what I am saying. what you read on the internet regardless of who the say they are or who they represent could be and in most cases is, not accurate.

As for as bro deal goes, for him to go and find internet based planted rumors then "copy and paste" un-proven statements about lance on this forum rubbed me the wrong way. bro deal had no access to tests results nor did he perform them. He was just blasting out "cut and paste" speculations that others have written somewhere. His sources have not been proven to be legitimate either.

If you dont like lance then fine, dont like him and leave it at that. With all the people gunning for him, if any of this stuff bro deal posted was accurate, then I am 100% positive that it would be used against him and he would be in court and stripped of his titles in a heart beat. This has not happened so, so much for the so called evidence...

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Scott CR1 Pro
Garmin Edge 305 HR+CAD, Shimano Ultegra-6600 shifters, 10sp 12-27 cassette, Shimano Ultegra-6600 front & Rear Derailleur, Shimano Ultegra-6600 38/52 Crank, Shimano Ultegra brakes,Fortezza SuperLite Road tires, Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels, Crank Brothers "Quattro'" pedals, Selle Italia SLR Saddle, FSA K-Wing Pro OS Road bars, Samsung YP-U2J MP3 player

Yes, the internet does contain garbage.
However, L'Equipe, Chatennay Malabre, Cyclingnews, Velonews, Cycle Sport (and many others) have all published this information which Brodeal outlined.
Whether they publish it on the internet or not, is not the issue.
Is it your contention that each of them are lying?


But they're not rumours.
L'Equipe, Chatennay Malabre, Cyclingnews, Velonews, Cycle Sport (and many others) have all published the same information.

If these publications were telling lies - as you appear to suggest that they are - each of them runs the risk of being sued for libel/slander.
Correct?
It would be commercial madness for L'Equipe, Chatennay Malabre, Cyclingnews, Velonews, Cycle Sport (and many others), to print/publish unsubstantiated rumours/lies, given how litigious the person who is implicated, is.

And are you seriously suggesting that Chatennay Malabre, Cyclingnews, Velonews, Cycle Sport (and many others) are not legitimate?


He has not been stripped of his titles for the simple reason that the 6 positive results from 1999 samples, could not be used by the UCI/WADA in an action against the rider concerned.
They're the rules - surely you want the rules to be respected?

The testing of the samples constituted clinical tests to see if rEPO could be detected in samples already given.
However, outcome of those tests did shown the presence of rEPO is six separate urine samples belonging to that rider.
rEPO cannot metabolise of it's own accord within a sample of urine.
It has to be in the sample when the sample is taken.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

so the rules only apply to Bjarne Riis and Jan Ullrich??

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Scott CR1 Pro
Garmin Edge 305 HR+CAD, Shimano Ultegra-6600 shifters, 10sp 12-27 cassette, Shimano Ultegra-6600 front & Rear Derailleur, Shimano Ultegra-6600 38/52 Crank, Shimano Ultegra brakes,Fortezza SuperLite Road tires, Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels, Crank Brothers "Quattro'" pedals, Selle Italia SLR Saddle, FSA K-Wing Pro OS Road bars, Samsung YP-U2J MP3 player

??????????

The specifics of the 1999 tests were :

1.The tests conducted were clinical tests only.
2.The tests could only be carried on one remaining sample at C-M.
3.because of (1) and (2) above, no action could be taken where a prohibited susbstance was found to be in a sample.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

I understand why under UCI rules such test ,for research only, could not be considered as viable evidence for proper sanctions, however I do agree that the is no more evidence against others that have been sanctioned without due process.
This is what I find to be unequal.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Dude, he doesn't get it, at all. He's a fanboy. They're immune to "internet idiot" things like court documents, transcripts, reports, logic and fact. He really doesn't understand the facts or the scope of this conversation or even the nature of the tests and why LA is still riding around, not banned like others. That is made obvious by the fact that his only, and immediate, rebuttal, consisted of personal attacks on Bro Deal. Apparently, he is convinced that saying "anything" is better than saying "something".

LA, while I admire his riding, is a smart cat. He's threatened others with lawsuits, and they apparently couldn't back up their claims, so they shut up. On the other hand, all the other OFFICALLY published (and by the way, sly, published documents that THEN get published on the internet don't automagically become fake, sorry) accusations and comments of others, and there are a lot of them, that point out that LA was doping, they aren't being threated by good 'ol LA, because he's smart enough to know that if he ever took them to court, they might open up a Pandora's box of evidence that would bring his house of cards tumbling down. No, there's no doubt he had his hand in the cookie jar, but, he's never been CAUGHT with his hand in the cookie jar, so he rides on.

I have no doubt that juicing still goes on in the grand tour, but, after enough bad press, so far this year, the vast majority of them are smart enough to moderate their juicing to keep it at levels that won't get them caught if they are having a bad physiology day

I agree with you.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Lance is the best there ever was. Hes got brains and ability. He never had to dope to beat the dopes he raced against!

I know that. I just thought I'd post that as it was an interesting read and goes back to a rant a long time ago about how crap some labs are...