Reputation of cycling - Page 2

Points well made, swampy.

I answered the initial post on the basis that the poster was asking the question about the sports current reputation.

It is my view that Festina would have brought the doping aspect in to the general publics consciousness.
That was the only point that I was attempting to make.
Doping or what went on in the sport would not have impacted to the extent that festina did, in terms of the general public.

In making the Festina point, I wasn't for a moment trying to suggest that pre 1998 was clean and wonderful.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Depends on which side of the pond you're from...

Rumor Definition | Definition of Rumor at Dictionary.com

Fair enough...

... but imagine what the perception of the sport would be if 'all that' info was general knowledge to the public.

Agreed.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

It does seem that out of most sporting activities the organization itself seems to be the most canabalistic to itself than any other sporting activity. If that makes sense.

Sure it is talked about in other activities amongst those organizers, but it seems to be done more discretely rather than taking a premature media attack against certain athletes before there is definite evidence. It seems like the exposure and the glee the cycling organization has for finding out their "villian" is cheating and making it world wide news is what damages the sport the most.

Just an opinion that handling a lot of this behind closed door as discretely as possible would be a better way (not saying it is the best solution) to manage the sport and the participants. That is if you are really concerned about the sport and the athletes.

But if the guy(s) from your nation are not winning than perhaps blasting it out on world wide media very quickly seems like a rational decision. As if that would really happen.

By the way I am unfortunately a former long time user and dealer of PED's in a sport where the athlete is highly rewarded being a user. Poor results do not yield good revenue for the exploiters....ummm....I mean organizers. If one is truly concerned about impacting the lives of those competing it is better to have some counseling for the athlete along with a penalty if that is necessary, but it can be done discretely. Like sheep the audience will come back and not consider drug use if there is less talk about it because it is being handled kind of hush hush by the leaders in the sport. I personally enjoy watching cycling even if in the back of my mind I am suspect of the athlete. Unless I see the needle in the skin with my own eyes the person is innocent.

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... in jest.

When i was racing at the amateur level n the 80's, there was some pretty prevalent use of amphetamines. I quit racing because I was trying to do it the old fashioned way, clean. I gave up racing and since have ridden for the enjoyment of it. When I was researching my newest novel about a doping scandal in the Tour de France, I interviewed over 50 active racers from all levels, from the junior level to collegiate to semi pro to professional. I began to see a pattern. Where winning was extremely important for the fame and the money, there was doping. Where racing was a chance to get some serious exercise with good friends, there was limited or no doping. Few outright admitted to doping, but when asked the others shrugged and gave the standard BS line; "Everyone does it". I agreed to never identify the names of my interviewees, and I will also not identify the locations where these guys live and race. These interviews changed the nature of the novel and I took a lot longer writing it because my whole impression of bike racing changed. I left behind all of my research on doping techniques and got inside the head of the main character in the book and the book is now more a reflection on what I saw in the eyes of those who were cheating; I saw bitterness, anger and hostility in spite of some fairly successful racing careers. When I watch professional cycling now, I assume many if not most of the peleton are doing something other than nutrition and training to enhance their performance. In many ways it has become like "professional" wrestling. I was warned early on before the interviews by a collegiate cyclist who I believe remains clean that what I was going to see was not pretty and he was right.

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Shawn Rohrbach MFA
www.shawnrohrbach.com

Very good post and it seems that you have some insight on the true nature, which has more to do with the darker nature of a human than just scraping the surface as saying one is a cheat, which is bad in itself. I see a lot of arguments on forums and though I tend not to jump into the discussions amongst 98% who have never used drugs in this manner, do not know anyone who lives in that world, but yet speculate. All people have a darker nature. It is just that some go much deeper into that darker nature than others. Unfortunately I went pretty far into and if I can do anything at all to help counsel a person to the direction they are headed I will do my best even to the point of exposing myself in humiliation and have done so in a magazine article as well.

I have a place in my house where all my trophies are displayed. I call it the "wall of shame." Someone might ask, "if you are ashamed of them then why would you display them?" The wall is not is not in the most visible place in the house. It is the deepest darkest corner of the house, but not a closet. The dark corner reminds me of the darkest time in my life where I was so caught up in winning that I foresook rational thinking. In my testimony it reads just as you describe. Though I was winning I was not happy. I was a bitter, volitile person and had very few true friends. I lost a marriage. I risked going to jail. I had a contact that I purchased from that threatened my life and I had threatened the lives of some individuals. I lost old friends. I answered the door always with a handgun ready. I was always paranoid. Those who were around me were just like me. Some a little better and some a whole lot worse. I saw girls and one guy prostitute themselves for income so that they could train without having to hold a full time job. I saw friends go to federal prison for selling in order to win and to be in the lime light. I have some former associates that are dead either from prolonged drug use or suicide. I once struggled myself with suicide as a new user because I did not know how to cope with the depression once you come off the drugs.

It is not just about competing and drug use. It is about the dark nature of humans, which includes self promotion, which is a pride issue. You will typically find that these people that go further with the obsession to win probably had a self esteem issue in the beginning. As they win self esteem rises and they fall in love with the new attention. The more the attention is drawn to them the more they want it. The more they want it the further they are willing to go to get it. Imagine if a person is willing to prostitute themselves so that they can feed this desire how dark they become. I have been trying to counsel one such person for a number of years. I will not mention her name, but she is a current pro athlete. She does not have to do it as much as she used to because she now makes more money per opportunity because she is in higher demand. I have seen her cry for hours. She knows she is in a deep dark place, but I also know that she struggles to give up what she sees is "fame and fortune" and just blend into society and give up the popularity that she has gained.

Then there are those who do not actually take the drugs, but are like a parasite feeding on the popularity of the one the successful athlete. Most coaches, trainers and representatives are not like this, but some are willing to push an athlete deeper into this dark place because it benefits them personally. On the surface they may care, but deep down the darker nature is satisfied. The more popular and successful an athlete is the more demand for the coach or trainer. If one has multitude of world class wins they are able to advertise their services in magazines and do TV interviews and such. They can become commentators during events and so on so that they are also put into the lime light and finances are increased.

Then there are the organizers of the event and the audience. Many are not but some of them are the greatest of hypocrites. On one side they proclaim their innocence that they are doing all that they can to make the sport clean, but like the dark athlete and trainer they make a living off a sport and off of contraversial, cocky and highly successful athletes. The more hype of an ahtlete the greater attraction to the event. The audience is highly attacted to athletes who will break world record, who will stand out in competition, who have a personal story that can impact the hearts of the audience as if they overcome great obstacles in life. Whatever it takes to hype the event and attract the audience. So the hypocrisy is the organizer on one hand stating they do all they can do. They have found some scape goats for the season. "See look we have found some guilty ones." On the other hand they know that if a pro cyclist has nothing any more special to offer than the typical local crit competitor the audience will be not as great. The attraction cannot be hyped, which in turn means LESS MONEY for the organizer.

This goes along with the audience as well. They too want to see records broken otherwise they just soon stay at home and rake the yard or watch reruns of CSI Miami. So on one hand they want the hype, the stories of overcoming obstacles and the RISE to greatness. But they want world records broken in the cleanest of forms. That would be great if that can happen, but how do we know the purity of the ahtlete, the trainer, the organizer and all those surrounding the event.

The bottome line is that the darker nature (sinful nature) of humans is what drives all of this. Until that part is solved I highly doubt testing will work or penalties will work because I can promise you they will just look for another way around. I am not saying give up those two because it at least throws up an obstacle for the athlete to consider and many will not cross that line. I did a lot of things that were very bad, but even I had a line that I would not cross. However, someone once asked me if I trained for my health and I said that I only trained to win. That I cared nothing about my health and that I would die if it were necessary. That was not just a flipant comment. That was a comment that was true. So I guess my line was pretty far out there. Thank the Lord literally for intervening in my life and that now I see things completely different.

There I exposed things that I do not like to go back and expose, but if it were to help anyone I hope that it will. Now days when I get an opportunity to speak or counsel an athlete on an individual basis I get to at least plant seed of thought and sometimes I would like to think that my story will help someone else not go down the same road.

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Felt : what can I say?

Your post is very inciteful because, as you say, you have been there in terms of using PED’s albeit in a different sport.

I’ve an anecdote.
I was trained by one of the really great riders that this country has produced. My coach was a man who had national titles by the spade load and was literally unbeatable on the amateur circuit. International opposition and domestic opposition could not beat this man in competition. He was so good that he was offered a professional contract and he “went to France” as we say here. He joined a particular team and immediately he was asked what type of gear (drugs) he used. He told his team mates that he never took anything, ever, to race. His team mates laughed and asked how he managed to win what he had won. He explained that he trained hard, ate well, did not indulge in excess etc. Again his team mates laughed saying “you won’t last 6 months in this game unless you use the gear (dope)”.
My coach ignored their views and continued on with his routine of resting/training/eating……………….The first few races he participated in he did well. He managed to get placed in several elite professional races which was unheard of for a neopro.
His team manager, knowing my coaches viewpoint about doping called him in to his office for a chat.
The manager explained that my coach could do so much better if he did dope and that he would, in all likelihood, be good enough to ride the Tour de France. Again, my coach had to justify why he would not go down the doping route. The manager of the team became irate. He explained that as far as he was concerned the team and it’s riders were a means to an end – the end being invited to ride a Tour de France, so that they could earn better money etc.

My coach stood his ground. He tried to convince the team manager that he was good enough to win a place on the team to ride the Tour de France. He also said that he would ride a Tour de France without having to dope. The team manager thanked him for the chat that they had. A week later, my coach received a letter from his team explaining that they were terminating his contract as they felt that he was not good enough to cycle as a professional.

The reason I tell this anecdote is because the pressure to perform in the sport not only comes from your team mates but also from your manager and your sponsor. The fact that other teams/riders are doping, in all probability, makes the pressure to dope even greater. That’s before you even get on the bike and race for 5+ hours per day.

My coach returned home to a very warm welcome from those members in the sport. For years he was asked about his brief professional career and he said that he came home because he was homesick. He was not prepared to tell the real story of what actually happened to him because he felt that this would betray the sport.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Lim, thanks for sharing and it is a good story to share because there are many unwilling to cross the line. It comes in varying degrees as well. In the same spirit, but not quite as deep as someone who actually does use PED's, are seen on multitudes of forums asking, "are there any supplements that will make me better?"

Perhaps those people will draw the line at just being curious and go no further, but as you say the pressure to use and to win goes really deep into the bad side of human nature. Those who would not be willing to use themselves, like in your example, are very willing to push or are in the position to put extreme pressure on someone else to take the risk. If one is not willing than there are plenty of other genetically gifted individuals who have a darker nature and are very willing to take the step. Some are more reluctant but the fame and fortune beckons their name and they cross the line. Later down the road shame and humiliation can be the possible payoff to that once reluctant person, but they went despite the reluctance. It is later when they are caught they think what happened to me, why am I here. The person that pressured them rarely faces the same shame.

It is talk like this that helps an athlete decide if that 12 dollar trophy is worth the price. Perhaps that 6 figure contract and not sitting in front of a computer like the rest of us was worth it for a while. Many do it and do not face the public shame, but many still face hardships by their own works even if they do not get caught.

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In the case that I cited, I was trained by that man for eight years and he insisted throughout that doping and anyone who did dope was ethically and morally wrong.
For him it was a matter of ethical principle and it was a matter of trying to safeguard a persons health.
Both great reasons, in themselves, not to go down the doping route.

However not everyone has the ethical/moral fibre to be able to withstand pressure and expectation – and they succumb to the duress of others. Even if people cannot be persuaded on the ethical/moral question of doping/cheating, the health reasons alone make the doping route highly dangerous in my view.
As you said, what happens when the “high” cannot be replaced?
Who will be there to pick up the pieces when the depression sets in? Certainly not the people who tried to persuade you to go down the doping route.

I can understand the attraction of wanting to be the best in a field.
I can understand the lure of wanting to get "the edge".
But the cost is indefinable in my view - and that risk is far too great.
As you said the fleeting feeling of success cannot last forever.

great post felt.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Felt and Limerick; thanks for the insightful if painful personal accounts. The truthfulness of your accounts is apparant and they both ring true to the interviews I had with more than 50 cyclists as part of my research. My hope is young cyclists will read your posts and perhaps even contact your through the forum and ask real questions before they decide to participate in any kind of performance enhancing program.

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Shawn Rohrbach MFA
www.shawnrohrbach.com

Thanks shawn :

Got to put my cards on the table here.
Even if I had a bucket of EPO consumed, I still don't think I would ever be in contention with a professional!

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Here is my testimony in an e-magazine earlier this year. The only problem was there were some editing liberties performed (to be expected). While 98% of the posted article is true some of it was tweaked a little from what I orginally wrote. My article begins on page 18 through page 20.

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Religion aside, that was an interesting read... Thanks for posting.