http://www.cyclingforums.com/ This is the place to talk about training and racing with power (watts) measuring devices such as Polar 710/720, Power Tap, SRM or any other power measuring device. en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:59:51 GMT vBulletin 60 http://cdn.cyclingforums.com/images/layout/misc/rss.jpg http://www.cyclingforums.com/ http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471897-winter-wattage-training-plans-library-sale-now.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:03:16 GMT My annual blatant self-promotion on Winter Wattage training plans. Used by hundreds of athletes to make their winter training GREAT. Including Computrainer specific ones as well. Wattage Power Cycling Training Plans by Hunter Allen | TrainingPeaks (http://www.TrainingPeaks.com/hunter) ... My annual blatant self-promotion on Winter Wattage training plans.

Used by hundreds of athletes to make their winter training GREAT.
Including Computrainer specific ones as well.
Wattage Power Cycling Training Plans by Hunter Allen | TrainingPeaks


New this year is a Winter Indoor workout library!

Don't want a complete winter training plan?

How about just 15 key indoor winter trainer workouts?

These are perfect for both athletes and coaches(coaches can re-use them with their own athletes).
Log into Free Training Log, Training Plans and Food Diary | TrainingPeaks and purchase right from the Store in your account. They load directly into your workout library.
here's a pdf on how to buy them and load them into your account.
http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/AS...%20library.pdf


Send me an email if you have questions. Glad to help.

Hunter Allen ]]> Power Training Hunter w/kg http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471897-winter-wattage-training-plans-library-sale-now.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471896-quickie-vo2max-qs.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:41:40 GMT Ok ok, why not another vo2max thread :D The story is that now I am in the vo2max camp :o. A couple of weeks of stale/stagnant power during threshold workouts and I decided to try some level 5 intervals. Still doing L4 too and L3. So the program is 2x/week L5, 2x/week L4, 2x/week hella L3 :):) ... Ok ok, why not another vo2max thread :D

The story is that now I am in the vo2max camp :o. A couple of weeks of stale/stagnant power during threshold workouts and I decided to try some level 5 intervals. Still doing L4 too and L3. So the program is 2x/week L5, 2x/week L4, 2x/week hella L3 :):)

Did my 1st round of these level 5'ers this week. Used some of the tips from this post: http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-t...ationship.html (thanks for those!!).

My format was of 5 sets of 5 minutes at 1.14 * FTP with 5 minutes of rest between (soft pedal 50w). Pacing seems to be OK because the watt range. btwn all the work sets was only 3w (first set was hardest). NP = 95% of FT for this blockThen after the 5x5, 50 min block - I did 20 min .91 of FTP.

Can I ask a few quickie q's on these?

• Better to shorten rest interval (from 5 min to 4 or 3 or 2) ? Or increase power? Thinking a shorter rest w/same power = more aerobic sources of energy. Longer rest prolly means more AWC usage. I want to train vo2max & pull up FT, not boost AWC. Guessing 5 min work + 2-4 min rest is more ideal, right?? I like the 5 minute work interval since I get an easy check of 5 minute pwr with these.

• How high should NP be for 5x5 block? I read many posts in the archives that say it should be pretty close. How many rest periods do you include in the NP maths - 4 or 5?? User 'acoggan' in one thread said:

"you can also look at your normalized power for the entire set of intervals (work + rest periods combined) - if this is significantly less than your functional threshold power, then that suggests that you may be dogging it a bit". How close? 90%, 95%, 100%???

• From the same thread acoggan commented on about these intervals: "In addition to looking at heart rate (which generally should be w/in 5-10 beats/min of maximum at the end of each interval), " There is no HR monitor among my training eq. Yea yea, I know, we are doing power training but those were user acoggans comments. So does anyone look at HR (or care????)during these intervals?

]]> Power Training DancenMacabre http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471896-quickie-vo2max-qs.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471858-deaflympian-trains-power.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:04:56 GMT NZ Deaflympian trains with power - using a Cycleops power tap. He is currently based in Taipei, Taiwan and up-dates his blog regularly about his training/racing. He has been posting power statistics from time to time. This will become more a more regular feature in his blogs. Check out his blog... NZ Deaflympian trains with power - using a Cycleops power tap. He is currently based in Taipei, Taiwan and up-dates his blog regularly about his training/racing. He has been posting power statistics from time to time. This will become more a more regular feature in his blogs.

Check out his blog site and leave any comments/reactions.

Daniel Carruthers ]]> Power Training Dunners Dan http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471858-deaflympian-trains-power.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471837-recovery.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:32:22 GMT I will complete recovery rides one or two times per week to help recover from more intense training rides. However, I began to wonder if a "recovery" ride is a Z1 ride exclusively (being careful to not venture into the upper zones) or if a "recovery" ride was any ride that is below your current CTL.

As always, thank you for your insights.

Geebs ]]> Power Training geebe http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471837-recovery.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471813-calculating-watts-kg-vam.html Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:20:51 GMT I have thrown down a few public challenges to help me with my goal of slimming down and getting fit. One is to break one hour on Mt. Diablo in Northern California (South Gate). It seems people analyzing pro climbing performances have used a formula to estimate watts/kg. Relative power... I have thrown down a few public challenges to help me with my goal of slimming down and getting fit.

One is to break one hour on Mt. Diablo in Northern California (South Gate).

It seems people analyzing pro climbing performances have used a formula to estimate watts/kg.
Relative power (W/kg) = VAM (m/hour) / (Gradient factor x 100)
Gradient factor = 2+(percentage grade/10), so 6% would be 2.6

Since Mt. Diablo is over an hour from where I live, I was hoping to use this to guesstimate what watts/kg I will need (and I am intersted what folks think of the formula, which could be useful for estimating requirements for hills outside your area).

So, if the climb is 11.3 miles at 5.8% average, it is 981.5m to the top. If the goal is just under an hour, I need to climb at least 982m/h.

According to the above formula:
982/((2+0.58)*100)= ~3.8w/kg. Honestly that does not seem too hard, though I am not sure I can do that for an hour at the moment.

I have not gone all out recently (trying to get lots of SST in), but I did do a recent effort on a 3.3 mile, 7.3% hill (Old la Honda) in a group so I went a bit harder than normal and did 21 minutes, so more like:
VAM:393/(21/60)= 1123
1123/273= 4.11 watts/kg

My feeling is that breaking one hour on Diablo is more of a challenge than this or even breaking 20 minutes on Old la Honda (I did just under 20 a few years ago when I was slimmer). If this math is correct, though, that should not be the case and my goal should be attainable now?

Any views on this formula or the watts/kg required for Diablo?

Thanks! ]]> Power Training Watoni http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471813-calculating-watts-kg-vam.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471771-understanding-ctl-tss.html Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:09:57 GMT How does someone work out CTL and whether or not you are doing enough training and the minimum amount of training you can get by on when time is very short.

Cheers.

PS i don't know if i have phrased the question right or if i am barking up the wrong tree. ]]> Power Training whyohwhy http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471771-understanding-ctl-tss.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471721-derive-max-theorical-ftp-vo2max.html Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:59:08 GMT Am I right to assume that for a given Vo2Max there is a theorical max FTP a subject could reach. If so is there a table or a formula to ballpark this number ? ---- The reason I ask : I have a low measured VO2max (3.6 L/min) , I have been training for 13 months (the vo2 number was... Am I right to assume that for a given Vo2Max there is a theorical max FTP a subject could reach.

If so is there a table or a formula to ballpark this number ?

----

The reason I ask : I have a low measured VO2max (3.6 L/min) , I have been training for 13 months (the vo2 number was taken right before training started) . My FTP has been flat (250-260w) since june. Been doing SST, 2x20, 2x30, 5x5 5 days a week for the last 6 weeks on the Computrainer ... still no visible gains. I suspect I might be grinding the last possible ftp-watts for my relatively low O2 uptake (ie limited genetics)... I could also not be training right... or I could simply be impatient :o

This is all recreational. I want to see how much I can still gain if any. I enjoy the training. ]]> Power Training midlife http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471721-derive-max-theorical-ftp-vo2max.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471717-quantification-training-session-using-power.html Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:19:07 GMT Hi, I am starting a PhD in relating the effect of training on performance, looking at it from a Statistics and Operational Research point of view. I was wondering if any of you had a method, or knew of methods, to quantify a single session in terms of power. As you can... Hi,

I am starting a PhD in relating the effect of training on performance, looking at it from a Statistics and Operational Research point of view.

I was wondering if any of you had a method, or knew of methods, to quantify a single session in terms of power.

As you can appreciate, power outputs in a training session fluctuate, so I am interested in knowing how people define the work done in a training session when viewing Power outputs, or Heart Rate for that matter.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Regards,



Oli ]]> Power Training Oly87 http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471717-quantification-training-session-using-power.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471634-using-srm-dura-ace-2007-powermeter-push-fit-bottom-bracket.html Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:52:25 GMT Hello

It is commonly accepted that old-style wired SRM power meter's won't fit onto push-fit style road frames such as the new Giants/Treks/Scotts (where the bearings are internalised) because the plastic disc inside the chainset rubs against the frame.

I was just wondering whether anyone had found a way to get round this problem with a sneaky bodge or something similar - or can offer any other advice.

It is disappointing that there is no after-market fix to make this work - and it very much limits the range of frames that I can use.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards
Matt

PS - I am using a Dura Ace 7800 SRM chainset (2007) with a PCV. ]]> Power Training forza http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471634-using-srm-dura-ace-2007-powermeter-push-fit-bottom-bracket.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471597-surges-races-group-rides-crit-training.html Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:53:19 GMT 1 - Mass start races are highly variable, jumpy, jittery, and a little like QM. I can see this randomness even from riding with groups recently - comfortably low power in sections followed by huge surges in other segments. My problem - dealing with the surges. To handle these types of surges... 1 - Mass start races are highly variable, jumpy, jittery, and a little like QM. I can see this randomness even from riding with groups recently - comfortably low power in sections followed by huge surges in other segments. My problem - dealing with the surges.

To handle these types of surges where power goes way over FT, what would you suggest?

a - Non-isopower work (ala 15s on/15s off microintervals)
b - Dedicated L6 training for the surges
c - Dedicated L5 training for the 5-10 minute climbs
d - More L4 training to raise FT, it is an aerobic sport after all.

My guess so far is D (boost FT with more L4) and that being able to handle the surges, lots of them that is, is more an aerobic issue than anerobic - assuming I am able to generate the 1 & 5 minute power required to hang with the pack. I figure as one goes through AWC that the hard efforts rely even more on aerobic sources, hence boosting aerobic fitness bodes well.

Opinions on this?

2 - A related question from the above and speaking of crits more specifically - it looks to me that there is a different pattern here than in other types of rides. I looked up some of the Coggan studies for Quadrant Analysis and can see the pedal speed/force plots are quite different than in other rides (like 40k TT's, or trainer isopower stuff).

This is from Andrew Coggan's page where he shows a plot of a typical flat criterium. The obvious attention getter: tons of high velocity pedaling, some at high force, some at low force.


(Besides the obvious bike handling & tactics angles) what is key to crit training from a physiological/metabolic standpoint?

a - Riding/training sessions which mimick the QA diagram above (specificity)
b - Better aerobic base (power - raising FT)
c - both?
d - other?

Seems to me that yes a 45-50 minute crit is overwhelmingly an aerobic event. That makes a good case for building a better aerobic base. I have to think though that high force/high velocity pedalling is going to be way above threshold, which sounds like dedicated L5/L6/L7 work or L3/SST with a high VI & NP > AP.

Guess this is sort of a specificity or power question (or other) regarding crits.

Then again, I could have this totally wrong.

Thoughts? ]]> Power Training DancenMacabre http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471597-surges-races-group-rides-crit-training.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471562-powertap-2-4-individual-leg-power.html Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:45:05 GMT I recently purchased a PowerTap 2.4 (on a pre-built Bontrager wheel). I have finally come into the world of power. :D

My question is; is there software available to discern the power applied from each leg? :confused:

I'm using the PowerAgent 7.4.5.6 software that came with the unit and it has no provision to separate each leg.

I know I can do one legged stuff on the trainer this winter, but it would be nice if someone figured out a way for the PT to glean this information (yea, I know SRM and Polar can do this). ]]> Power Training bwbike http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471562-powertap-2-4-individual-leg-power.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471531-powertap-avgs.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:30:36 GMT One for the powertap users. Whilst doing a ride and you have pressed both buttons at once to record the start of an interval is there a way of getting the average power reading for that interval and not for the whole ride while you are riding . Cheers One for the powertap users.
Whilst doing a ride and you have pressed both buttons at once to record the start of an interval is there a way of getting the average power reading for that interval and not for the whole ride while you are riding .

Cheers ]]> Power Training whyohwhy http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471531-powertap-avgs.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471514-powertap-comp-vs-elite.html Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:06:59 GMT If I save $440 by getting the wired (comp version) I think I can deal with the zip ties on the frame. Or is my thinking way off here? If I save $440 by getting the wired (comp version) I think I can deal with the zip ties on the frame. Or is my thinking way off here? ]]> Power Training wiredued http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471514-powertap-comp-vs-elite.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471503-winter-training-power.html Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:13:35 GMT Hello everybody,

As they say i've been a long time lurker and have enjoyed ....it's killing me..and a couple of others.


Reason for my post : having just had a very very long lay off i just came back this March and it was like starting again,aged 53 and weighing 162lbs 5'5", my FTP in March was 172 now 8 months later i weigh 136lbs and my FTP has risen slightly to 215-220.

Now here in England it is the tradition to ease off to the point where you actually do nothing other than Sunday club rides, my available time for training is very scarse even throughout Summer so i do not want to loose the little i have gained and i have carried on doing 2 x 1 hour turbo sessions a week at around 90 % - 92 % of my FTP plus 2 weekend rides.

Is there a chance of over training and will i be able to maintain my FTP and when should i start doing intervals if i intend to try and race in March.

Many thanks. ]]> Power Training whyohwhy http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471503-winter-training-power.html http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471427-getting-300-watts.html Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:57:38 GMT After reaching some of my goals recently I am super excited about riding. Now, stuff I thought was far fetched or entirely out of reach seems at least semi-possible. Yeah, confidence is a good thing :-) May as well be ambitious so here is my goal: 300 watt FTP. I know from reading the big... After reaching some of my goals recently I am super excited about riding. Now, stuff I thought was far fetched or entirely out of reach seems at least semi-possible. Yeah, confidence is a good thing :-)

May as well be ambitious so here is my goal: 300 watt FTP.

I know from reading the big killing me thread (and it damn near killed me reading all those posts!!!!!) that there is a genetic limit to what people can do. The coach on the big thread said that 250 was the limit for many people and to get to 300 you had to have good genetics.

I guess genetics determine the upper limit for vo2max so it follows that your FTP can only be so high depending on potential genetic vo2max.

I don't know how good my genetics are but I just got a little over 200 watts for a full-blown 60 minute TT (confirmed on the trainer no less). This is maybe 4-5 months into my cycling career.

So what would it take to get to 300 watts?
Does the formula or training mix change?
Should you regularly check/test 5 minute power?
Add vo2max work if/when L4 power stalls?
Do I need more volume and/or higher CTL?

From what I read on these pages, people seem to suggest vo2max work when FTP stalls or appears to plateau. So far for me, no plateau or stalling, just small but steady increases in FT. This on a purely L3/L4/SST training diet of about 9-10 hrs~ week, TSS in the 600-700 vicinity, about 68-70 TSS/hr. I can up the training time per week a few hours, maybe to 14-15 (thanks to work furloughs I have more time, but less money - that's the tradefoff).

I'm no 60 kg ballerina so 300 watts, if I could get there wouldn't make me some sort of champ, but it would be pretty amazing and I bet could do OK in races :-) ]]> Power Training DancenMacabre http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-training/471427-getting-300-watts.html