Protein alternatives? - Page 2

Back to the rock hard doggy dump issue: Why not add some fiber to that protein? Have a piece of fruit. Or if it's gotta be in shake form, get a powder like Metamucil to add to your protein powder.

Just don't bust a hernia straining!

Perhaps you missed the point.

A 5kg baby consumes about 5 x 250 ml of breast milk per day. Breast milk contains roughly 4 - 5 g of protein per 100 ml.

Thus the 5 kg baby consumes about 40 grams of protein per day. That is about 8 g per kg of body weight. i.e. much more than adults who generally have 0.5 - 2 g per kg.

So your argument about breast milk being only 5% protein is not a valid argument.

The cholesterol in eggs is what some nutritionists refer to as "good cholesterol". They claim that the cholesterol consumed through eggs in the diet actually reduces the amount of cholesterol produced by the body. It is the cholesterol produced by the body that blocks arteries. Just as there is good fat and bad fat, the introduction of soft cholesterol to the system of a healthy individual as a part of a balanced diet is beneficial in controlling healthy cholesterol levels.

I eat eggs every day and have done so since I was a kid. I have had my cholesterol levels tested a couple of times in the past few years, and each time have fallen well within the healthiest range. As for the quality of the protien - apparently the only form of protien more beneficial to the human body than that found in eggs, is that of which is contained within human flesh. Since the consumtion of human flesh is generally frowned upon in most societies, eggs prove to be a far more user-friendly option.

BeneFiber is a brand of fiber supplement powder which mixes well without any gritty residue, though you have to give your protein bottle a shake before you drink.

Good point, you don't get cholesterol from eating cholesterol

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Training Log

That's almost exactly what I was going to say. As a lifter-turned-cyclist and a big-time studier, I know a decent bit about sports nutrition...well, supplementing fiber, however you choose to do it-I find the powders to be positively offensive and prefer bran cereal for breakfast, though-is a great thing to do whether or not you are having trouble going to the bathroom. It's just good for your body. When I was really working my chest I was cramming down 200+ grams of protein a day, along with a couple other supps, and the fiber was a great addition in general.

I think the Benefiber is a bit different. Slightly chalky, but it's basically not ground up plant husks.

I would suggest that the one who missed the point is you. No matter how you play with the numbers, the infant is still only receiving 5% of it's calories as protein. If the only food ingested contains only five percent, five percent is all there is. Five percent is obviously enough for the time at which growth is faster than any other time in a human life.

I assure you I don't own stock in the company. I am nursing a GNC soy shake with a tablespoon of benefiber and I can't tell it's there at all.

I can only suggest that someone has been feeding you a lot more than eggs. Take, for example the study "Regression of Coronary Atheromatosis in Rhesus Monkeys" performed under the direction of Dr. Mark Armstrong at the University of Iowa in 1970. The study centered around the effects of diet on Rhesus monkeys. A group of Rhesus monkeys were fed a diet rich in saturated fat and cholesterol. Testing showed that the arteries of these monkeys rapidly became encrusted with atherosclerosis. After the arteries had become over half closed, the amount of saturated fat and cholesterol in the monkey's diet was markedly reduced. Eighteen months later the atherosclerosis was less than half what it had been at the conclusion of the diet rich in saturated fat and cholesterol. The only thing done to produce the diet rich in saturated fat and cholesterol was the inclusion of egg yolk in the diet. To reverse the progress of the atherosclerosis, the egg yolk was removed from the diet.

Please understand that some people smoke 3-4 packs of cigarettes a day for 50-years and never contract lung cancer, heart disease or any of the other diseases associated with cigarette smoking. Such anecdotal information does not suggest that smoking is other than unhealthy. The same must be applied to such anecdotal information as your personal cholesterol levels and your health.

As concerns the "quality" of the protein in eggs, this is a long-standing misconception driven by the egg industry which has its foundation in testing performed by Osborne and Mendel clear back in 1914. The operational standard was that the kind of protein which resulted in the fastest growth was deemed to be the most beneficial. Today it is recognized that faster growth is not necessarily indicative of being the most healthful. And within a few decades, it was recognized that the test subjects used by Osborne and Mendel were not the best substitute for research data applied to humans. Their test subjects were rats which have substantially different needs when compared to humans. It should be noted that while human breast milk contains 5% protein, the breast milk from rats contains 49%. This doesn't make it a preferable alternative for human babies.
Additional studies in the 1940s took on the laborious task of determining the proportions of 10 essential amino acids (for rats) which lead to the fastest growth. As noted in "Nutritive Value of Selected Proteins and Protein Combinations", (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition / Director, Sanchez, A.) this lead to knowledge of the optimal amino acid pattern for rat growth but not to any equivalent information for human beings. Some investigators then adopted this as a working hypothesis for what might be optimum for human beings. The amino acid combination and proportions found to be most beneficial for the fastest growth in rats was most closely mimicked in natural sources by eggs. This prompted the National Egg Board to begin suggesting that eggs were the optimal protein source for humans.

Since these early days of research into protein needs, erroneously merged into human nutrition information, a number of highly respected sources and studies have shown that humans fare just as well, and often better, on other sources of protein including plant sources. These include Lancet, The Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Sciences, studies under the direction of Hegsted, D. on the nutritive value of plant based sources of protein, ("The Vegetarian Diet"), published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association; "Nutritional Studies of Vegetarians: Part V, Proteins": Journal of the American Dietetic Association and statistical finding by Nathan Pritikin, founder of the Pritikin Longevity Centers to name a few.

Eggs may provide an adequate source of protein for human consumption but whether or not it is best is arguable to be sure. Whether or not the levels of saturated fat and cholesterol ingested through eggs are dangerous to human health is beyond rebuttal. Heart disease is the number one killer of people in developed nations following the standard western diet and eggs are the major contributor to the saturated fat and cholesterol which are the major culprits in development of atherosclerosis/heart disease.

There is a lot of information used to cloud the waters when it comes to cholesterol and the idea that people need to consume "good cholesterol" is among the hype used to promote some rather poorly evidenced ideas. The human body produces all of the cholesterol it needs. Any additional cholesterol is unnecessary and likely detrimental. As mentioned, if you're eating naturally available sources, you simply can't get a more concentrated dose of cholesterol than that obtained through eggs. Whole eggs contain 550 milligrams of cholesterol per 100 grams. Compare that to beef liver at 300 milligrams for the same portion or cream cheese at 120 milligrams per 100 gram serving. Even lard which is often seen as the symbol of saturated fat and cholesterol has less than one-fifth the cholesterol found in whole egg at 95 milligrams per 100 gram portion.

If you choose to eat eggs as your protein source then I wish you the best of luck. But a rational assessment of the available data strongly suggests that they not be promoted as a healthy protein source. Best of luck to you and your health.

From where does the idea come that humans have naturally evolved to need or benefit from artificially produced and highly concentrated supplements such as those being recommended for protein and fiber? In a purely natural setting, such doses would be unattainable and yet humans have flourished as a species. Perhaps if we're not getting enough fiber, it's because such a large part of the food we eat contains no fiber. And our digestive physiology as well as our medical statistics bear out the fact that our digestive systems require a significant amount of fiber to operate properly. So maybe the best idea is to consume the foods which contain what we need and avoid those that don't. In the hunt to consume obscene portions of protein, fiber has been all but lost from the diet. And yet none of the major and most respected organizations set to define nutritional guidelines even begin to recommend the levels of protein now being ingested under the assumption that it will be beneficial. Rather than supplementing fiber to replace that lost through a diet extremely high in protein, it makes more sense to me to consume adequate protein as well as foods which contain adequate fiber. And that can easily be done without exceeding healthful caloric intake.

Be careful, Muncher! Your future could be in an oblong box!

If there is anyone here for which that isn't the future, I'd love you to point them out. The hope is to not reach that fate before our time.

I'm not sure if your post is intended as sarcasm or not. If it is, I'll look upon this as an assertion that good, solid, testable, repeatable dietary information is of less value than anecdotes and advertisements. I do not concur.

If you're being serious, then I applaud your conclusion.

It's an in-joke. BTW, if you want to follow me around and cook, I will be more than happy to give up my protein and benefiber.

Sorry, I was a bit slow on the uptake. I was in mid-Edit when you posted so my comments now are perhaps more appropriate to your intent.