Protein Drinks - Page 2

Lab_Rat · #16 09-26.-2002

Hey Jaco, Hoozit my China, Energy Dynamics do a protein drink called &quot;Protein Blast&quot;. I was introduced to it last week during a Cycle Tour by Owen Hannie and Simon Kessler. I tried it immediately after a gruelling day in the saddle (140kms) and it definately aided my recovery for the next day's riding where I felt significantly stronger. (And this is in the hilly terrain of Lesotho where I bonked on the mountains.) I have used the Zone Drink and it was also recommended, however, it is best for 2 hours before your ride. I now swear by these products because I doubted that I would be able to ride the next day and I did another 145kms the next day. (And we got hammered that night too. ;D )

Jaco · #17 10-02.-2002

Hoozit LR, Thanks for the advice - still have to work out my ave. daily protein intake. Will definitely consider Protein Blast if I need to supplement. Glad to hear you survived those hills - you must be as tough as nails now. Can't say the same about myself - been off the bike for more than a week now - sinusses being stuffed &gt;

Animal · #18 10-02.-2002

You do need more protein to avoid catabolism (breaking down of muscles for food) in endurance excercise, and to aid recovery, because some usage of proteins for energy is inevitable in endurance sports. This gives some info: http://www.nismat.org/nutricor/index.html Basically &quot;The Zone&quot; diet is marketing hype. The extra protein will be deaminized, the waste products pissed out, and the remaining carbos used as expensive fuel. This is a superb source of info: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/nutrition.htm I do take protein shakes after exercise, but I do a LOT. Riding 15 miles to town, a 1 hour gym session, riding home, and then extra on the road training routines twice a week plus racing at weekends. Also, don't neglect micronutrients. I take multivits, zinc, cod liver oil, selenium, co-enzyme Q10, HMB (http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0103.htm) and Glutamine. http://www.supplementwatch.com/ will tell you what is worth it and what is industry hype.

Lab_Rat · #19 10-03.-2002

Thanks for the info Animal. The "Zone" I was referring to is a product though and not a diet.

Animal · #20 10-03.-2002

I think the guy who invented the Zone diet, registered the name, and the bars that bear that name are part of his marketing. If it's 40:30:30 carb

rotein:fat, then that's The Zone diet.

Lab_Rat · #21 10-03.-2002

Hold on a sec, let me see. . . Yup you're right. 40:30:30 I think what seems to work is that you actually put somethink into your stomach 2 hours before you train then.

Lab_Rat · #22 10-03.-2002

er. . . somethink ???

;D

nferyn · #23 11-15.-2002

[quote author=Animal link=board=18;threadid=920;start=15#21479 date=1033649494] I think the guy who invented the Zone diet, registered the name, and the bars that bear that name are part of his marketing. If it's 40:30:30 carb

rotein:fat, then that's The Zone diet. [/quote] I did some reading about the zone diet. It seemed quite interesting, based on controling your metabolism by keeping your insulin level in a specific zone. That way you would ensure that your carbon hydrate intake is not automatically metabolised into fatty acids. Seems interesting for a diet, but anyone doing some serious cycling needs more readily available carbonhydrates Niek

2LAP · #24 11-23.-2002

For athletes 60% Carbs is recomnded. Athletes shouldn't have too much of a problem maintaining insulin levels, as exercise increases insulin sensitivity (resulting in lower circulating insulin and a greater response to insulin). High fat diets are bad, because they increase the time the fat is circulating in the blood, this leads to CHD and CAD! Check out the dangers of high levels of circulating LDL (or low density lipoproteins) on google! :-\

poppaspoke · #25 11-26.-2002

I seem to remember a study indicating sports drinks with a particular ratio of carbs to protein ( 4 to 1 ) was beneficial to endurance athletes. This was the thinking behind Endurox R4...and imitators. Perhaps someone remembers this and can cite the source.

Vo2 · #26 11-27.-2002

Carbohydrates cannot and don't repair muscle damage caused by exercise, therefore athletes need protein supplementation. I believe carbs are added to many protein supplements to aid in the &quot;transport&quot; of the protein to the muscles.

ric_stern/RST · #27 11-27.-2002

i can't think of any research that seriously suggests athletes need to supplement protein intake. in the USA, UK, Australia, and likely many other countries we already have a surfiet of protein intake (i only have data on the countries above!). there is plenty of research to show that recovery is enhanced with a high glycaemic carbohydrates at ~ the rate of 1 - 1.5 g per kg body mass immediately after exercise. This has also been shown to help the immune system recover and lessen the chance of respiratory infections. it's my understanding that protein stimulates the uptake of carbohydrates. Ric

Vo2 · #28 11-27.-2002

[quote author=ricstern link=board=18;threadid=920;start=15#23113 date=1038388091] ...there is plenty of research to show that recovery is enhanced with a high glycaemic carbohydrates at ~ the rate of 1 - 1.5 g per kg body mass immediately after exercise...[/quote] Agreed. The effect of hi glycaemic CHO does enhance recovery, therefore my belief that you need to take a &quot;hi-gly&quot; CHO with your post-exercise supplements directly after exercise to &quot;kick start&quot; the recovery process. [quote author=ricstern link=board=18;threadid=920;start=15#23113 date=1038388091] i can't think of any research that seriously suggests athletes need to supplement protein intake. in the USA, UK, Australia, and likely many other countries we already have a surfiet of protein intake (i only have data on the countries above!).[/quote] Many studies have been done regarding the supplementation of protein, either for or against. The study done by R.R. Wolfe (Effects of physical activity on protein-energy interactions: Metabolic and nutritional considerations) comes to the conclusion that &quot;provided energy intake is adequate, endurance exercise does not increase protein requirements.&quot; He continues &quot;there is no consensus as to whether exercise affects protein requirements. Whereas the results cited above from our own study indicate that endurance exercise does not affect N excretion, and therefore protein requirements, there are ample data to the contrary. For example, TARNOPOLSKY, MacDOUGALL and ATKINSON (1988) studied endurance athletes and sedentary individuals given two levels of protein intake, and found that whereas increasing the protein intake in both groups had about the same positive effect on N balance, at a given level of protein intake the sedentary subjects had better N balance than the athletes in training. From these results they concluded that endurance athletes require greater daily protein intakes than either body builders (also studied) or sedentary individuals.&quot; Rolfe summarises by writing: 1. Energy expenditure (and caloric requirements) are directly related to physical activity. 2. Amino acid oxidation is increased in exercise but falls dramatically in its relative role in energy metabolism due to increased availability and oxidation of fatty acids. In strenuous exercise, muscle glycogen oxidation also appears to play a role in sparing amino acid oxidation. 3. Increased muscle protein synthesis in recovery balances any deficit that occurs during exercise. 4. Nutritional implications: if energy intake is adequate to maintain energy balance, exercise does not increase protein requirements. His last point (&quot;if energy intake is adequate to maintain energy balance, exercise does not increase protein requirements&quot

is where I believe the grey area exists. Most athletes don't know or understand what an &quot;adequate energy intake&quot; is. Athletes that have access to proper nutritional personnel and resources may have less of a problem, but I tend to lean towards the thought that most non-proffesional athletes don't know, nevermind follow, an energy controlled nutritional plan. The &quot;average&quot; homo sapien needs ± 2800 Kcals (11760 Kj) to maintain body weight. Problem is, who is average? The &quot;average&quot; family has 2½ kids! Who in the world has 2½ kids? No one is average. Almost everyone has a different idea on what a balanced ratio of energy intake should be. We've read about the Zone diet, that suggests 40% CHO 30% Protein 30% Fat. I personally believe such a ratio to be a recipe for disaster, but hundreds of people believe otherwise. The point here is that, yes, studies may show that the US, UK and OZ consume too much protein, but studies also show that 61% of people in the US are obese (58 Million Overweight; 40 Million Obese; 3 Million morbidly Obese; 8 out of 10 over 25's Overweight; 78% of American's not meeting basic activity level recommendations; 25% completely Sedentary; 76% increase in Type II diabetes in adults 30-40 yrs old since 1990). I'm almost sure that these are the people whom the tests are been done against, and there is no way in hell that anyone is going to compare me against 61% of Us of A's population. An energy controlled nutritional plan is just what it says it is, and for the athlete (pro or not), it is of the utmost importance to &quot;know&quot; and &quot;understand&quot; your energy requirements in relation to your exercise requirements. I'd rather supplement my nutritional plan with a protein shake than try and fit in 6 chicken breasts to fulfil my daily energy requirement ratio of 70-15-15.

2LAP · #29 11-27.-2002

I'm with Ric on this one, I think that the athletes need for protein supplmentation in addition to a balanced diet is a big sporting myth. This is an expensive myth, particularly as all of the advice about increasing protein intake apears to come from the protein manufactures!!

ric_stern/RST · #30 11-27.-2002

VO2, it would appear to me that point 4 (4. Nutritional implications: if energy intake is adequate to maintain energy balance, exercise does not increase protein requirements.) is the crux of the matter. the point being, how many cyclists have a negative energy balance? the most common query i see is &quot;how do i lose weight&quot; (i.e., have a negative energy balance), thus most cyclists either have a positive energy balance (gain weight) or the correct balance (maintain weight). I agree that a lot of cyclists don't have an adequate diet, but the analyses i've done and the research i've seen points to it being inadequate in CHO intake and not protein intake. I'm not arguing that we don't need protein, just that requirements are very small (although recent research suggests endurance riders require more than sedenatry, age and gender matched controls), this is around ~ 1.2 - 1.5 g per kg body mass per day for your average club cyclist, which for an average 72 kg rider would be 86 - 108 g protein per day. On the other hand CHO requirements run at about 5 - 8 g CHO/kg body mass per day, i.e., 360 - 576 g CHO. Ric

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