strenth vs. endurance..... have to choose ? How much to Eat ?

Hello all,

I consider myself more so a endurance cyclist. I am 5' 11" , and 151 lbs (much of which is lean muscle mass..... bones, tendons,).

I am wondering if it is possible... at my age= 29.5 ...... to add on additional weight, in the form of Lean Muscle Mass(not sure how fast I can even put on 1 lb. of this) , yet still maintain my moderate- to high level of endurance fintness.

I mean, in order to put on even lean muscle... one must EAT Big + have a solid daily regiman of either working out(weights or riding)... or having a day off. Even with a day off, my body burns food like its going out of style.

In a typical week, I commute to work about 25 miles( and I work 40.. maybe more hours per week- 10 hour days) .... and I ride on the weekends about 60 miles.

Seems like what would be best is if I mix in some weight work ... 1 or 2 days a week, eat big the day/night before riding 25+ miles (for my glycogen stores)..... and rest as much as possible.

I do eat WELL..... I have my own gourmet chef, on call 24/7.... so food- well cooked, quality HIGH protien food is not an issue. Nor is getting 7+ hours of sleep per night.

In other words, what I am asking here is ... is it possible to put on 5-7 lbs. of lean Muscle....... even though I think my body is programed for Endurance excersice.... and thus burning food= fuel 24/7.... probably even at rest..... just to recoupe any lost/deficent energy stores in my body ...... ???????????

Any help would be appreciated

Some thing that worked to me was the pre-season work. Weight lifting convined with high protein diet suplement. Also did some Uphill running. The result I´ve gained about 5 lbs.
As the season aproaches, do some distance in low gears to bring back the speed.
In my perspective is easer to earn speed that strenght, so my advise is to focus 60 to 70 % of the time of your pre-season trainning in strengh.

Hmmm, this seems to be a really common question on the forum.

The answer to your question is an easy one. You basically need to do high-rep squats, once you have done a little conditioning. High rep squats put muscular weight on the thighs and buttocks, while also promotong weight gain around the whole body. There is no other comparable exercise but squats are hard. Don't do the following program till you have gotten used to the exercise and built up your stamina first:

Stand before a mirror and load the weight with something you can handle for 20 reps. Step back and place the bar on your shoulders, slightly low down on the traps. Keep you head up and squat right down but on no account bounce as you come back up again. Keep your back straight as your frame allows without pressuring your spine. Breathe deeply and repeat the movement. Stop if you feel overly nauseous. I repeat, don't do any high rep work, though, till you have gotten used to the exercise and done some preliminary work.

Make sure you have at least 2 free days a week off training and eat quality food, meat, dairy and veg. This program should allow you to gain 5 - 7 lbs easily. You should do these squats every 4 - 5 days. Your legs will feel sore if you haven't squatted before. It's better to cycle before you squat rather than after.

I started squatting as a kid when I was teased at school for being too skinny to do sports. I put piles of weight on within 8 months time and swear by this system. Just make sure you work your way up and don't injure your back or knees. Some people need to place a small, thin board under their heels in order to keep balance.

High reps are for weight-gain while low reps build strength.

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like I'm going to have to join a gym ..... , and eat a bit more(like I dont already eat enough...)

You don't have to 'eat more' per se, but you have to eat more protein.

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Exactly.... more protien. What kind of protien..., chicken, turkey, red meat, whey , soy, etc. ????????????

Want to break it down even more, I'll start another thread asking about proper times to eat, for maximum calorie/protien absorption....

You need roughly 25 grams before, another during if a long ride and 25-50grams whey protein after.

Maybe another 25 before bed.

YOu can get by on relatively little protein if you know when and how to do it and use the right sources.

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For weight gain, you need to squat, not burn out with too much activity and eat well.
Protein is for muscle repair but carbs are essential. If you eat excessive protein at the expense of carbs (Atkins trend), this isn't such a good idea. Some bodybuilders cut carbs and only eat protein when they want to gain definition but those natural athletes who aren't using steroids tend to lose muscle in the process.
I would personally never cut down on my carbs where sports are concerned due to past trials and errors. I see no reason why hard-training cyclists should need to worry about carbs if the come from bananas, potatoes, pasta e.t.c. However, it's best to eat you carbs in the morning and emphasise protein at nights or evenings. If you eat excessive protein, though, it will go straight through your system. You can calculate protein needs via bodyweight.

Thanks Carrera !!!

Now thats some Bread + Butter there Folks !!! What you said about eating Carbs in the morning....., and focusing on Protein by Mid-day... and evening......, but not too much ... makes total sense to me. That is how my body , for the most part operates as well. ...

The idea behind this is that most people are more active by day than by night. Daily activity burns up carbohydrates so if you eat a reasonable amount of carbs during breakfast and dinner, you'll burn much of this up when you hit your bike. We all need our carbs to be honest as they are an essential part of our diet.
However, when you eat protein by night, you're not as active but it's tough to get fat on protein - which is why Atkins capitalised on this system. If you snack on tuna fish or meat in the evening you should also be able to relax in front of the T.V.
There has been some experimentation with cycling carbs and protein. I have heard of some folks who tried eating only protein on one day and carbs on the following day. One person who tried this was former film star Steve Reeves who is very much into cycling and fitness, if I remember correctly.
However, you should be quite safe following a carbs-by-day, protein-by-night system, give or take a few indulgences.
There are athletes who stick to a purely low carb diet but I don't feel it works for me and I feel I have far more energy when I eat potatoes, rice, pasta and brown bread by day.

Got any proof anywhere at anytime of this?

You lose muscle on protein?

' Some bodybuilders cut carbs and only eat protein when they want to gain definition but those natural athletes who aren't using steroids tend to lose muscle in the process. '

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Sure, I found that to be the case. I find that high protein alone doesn't suit me and I'm also more prone to injury if I go too low on carbs. Carbs give me more energy but I also make sure I try and get sufficient protein.
Bodybuilders always used to go on high protein in order to cut up and lose fat but they would inevitably lose some muscle with the fat. Lots of people also lose some strength and muscular size due to aerobic work (even guys such as Schwarzennegger who competed at a far lower weight 230 lbs.) Schwarzennegger did lots of running and swimming as well as weights and I read in his biography that he used to cycle almost 2 hours to the gym and back as a kid, since it was located way outside the town where he lived.

BB'rs lose muscle because they are cutting calories and dieting down. NOT because they are taking protein over carbs.

Give us more credit than that.

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Wow we are almost twins! Well except for the 24/7 gourmet chef, how did you manage that?

I to am 5'11'' 150 lbs and will turn 30 in May. I can not gain weight no matter how much I eat but at this stage I don't really care. More concerned with my aerobic and anaerobic conditioning to compete in cycling and tri's.

But back in my college days I worked out 5-6 times a week for the sole purpose of gaining weight and looking like a greek statue. After about 2.5 years of heavy weight training and eating like a maniac, mostly a high protien high carb diet and very little fat, I was able to get up to 165lbs with 5% body fat. This was all accomplish with no cardio work at all pure weight training. I was very happy with the way I looked at this point.

After college and I entered the real world I didn't have the time to continue on this path and stopped weight training completely. After about 6 months I was back to 150 still pretty ripped but definitely a lot smaller. People like us need to eat a ton, I was eating 5000-6000 calories a day, and train very hard to put on muscle mass. So if you want to continue cycling and gain muscle mass strap on the feedbag!!!

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In my own case I find I gain weight when my metabolism slows down. The more weights I do, the less I need to eat to gain weight and the more I have to avoid certain foods for fear of putting on fat. Basically, weights slow down my metabolism.
Soon as I change to aerobic work on the bike, the opposite happens. Usually after 3 months of constant cycling my metabolism kicks into fast mode. My trousers start hanging so I have to wear a belt, I can eat all the junk food I want and stay slim and, if anything, weight loss becomes too excessive.
Just out of interest, I once trained in a Russian gym and noticed that there were one or two guys who were really strong but also very big. I mean, they had large waists and enormous butts due to squats e.t.c.
There was another guy who was really athletic, small waist, broad shoulders and looked terrific. The amazing thing was that the smaller, muscular guy was the strongest in the gym by a huge margin. I found it odd that only this latter guy was able to gain terrific strength without accumulating any fat at all. That is, he could probably ride a road-bike or swim without losing face but the two other guys probably couldn't even cycle round the block.
It's usual to encounter very strong guys who are equally big but it's very unusual to meet a small, athletic guy whose strength has gone through the roof without all the baggage. That is, you can normally tell what sport somebody does by his (or he) physical appearance but there are cases where you find exceptions.
As I recall this guy ate plenty of carbs as well and I heard of another big guy who had a 28 inch waist but consumed pizza and doughnuts. Strange isn't it?