Taking the leap, part time vs. full time

I've got a bit of a decision-making crisis and I'm not sure
what to do, I'm hoping some med students and/or physicians
might offer some advice. A bit about myself: 32, married, no
kids, and about 8 years left to pay off our house. I work a
gravey (but not particularly challenging) 65K/year medical
field job that only requires working about 120 days out of
the year. My wife is a school teacher who makes about 30K.
I've been getting fired up to try to get into medical school
recently, along with the support and advice of several
physicians friends. The problem is that I still need the
prereqs, which I've started picking away at on a part-time
basis. A couple of my physician friends tell me I need to
"fish or cut bait," in other words, if I really want to get
into medical school I need to quit work altogether and
concentrate completely on my studies. I'm understandably a
bit nervous about giving up a nice paycheck only to find out
I might not get into medical school. I'd like to pick away
at the prereqs, and then start applying. If I don't get in
anywhere, no harm no foul, I've still got my job. My friends
tell me my grades could suffer (so far they haven't) if I
continue to try to work and go to school, and that med
school admission boards may think I'm not serious or
committed to my studies if they see I didn't concentrate
100% on school. I'd appreciate some advice.

"John S. Clark" <bd@doon.net> wrote in message
news:4v3md0h458ehl9ra3aplk3u7o778uq8iru@4ax.com...
> I've got a bit of a decision-making crisis and I'm not
> sure what to do, I'm hoping some med students and/or
> physicians might offer some advice. A bit about myself:
> 32, married, no kids, and about 8 years left to pay off
> our house. I work a gravey (but not particularly
> challenging) 65K/year medical field job that only requires
> working about 120 days out of the year. My wife is a
> school teacher who makes about 30K. I've been getting
> fired up to try to get into medical school recently, along
> with the support and advice of several physicians friends.
> The problem is that I still need the prereqs, which I've
> started picking away at on a part-time basis. A couple of
> my physician friends tell me I need to "fish or cut bait,"
> in other words, if I really want to get into medical
> school I need to quit work altogether and concentrate
> completely on my studies. I'm understandably a bit nervous
> about giving up a nice paycheck only to find out I might
> not get into medical school. I'd like to pick away at the
> prereqs, and then start applying. If I don't get in
> anywhere, no harm no foul, I've still got my job. My
> friends tell me my grades could suffer (so far they
> haven't) if I continue to try to work and go to school,
> and that med school admission boards may think I'm not
> serious or committed to my studies if they see I didn't
> concentrate 100% on school. I'd appreciate some advice.
>
What? Give up all that to become a slave for the next 10
years? You crazy?

Keep your job, especially with only 120 days/year. Go ahead
and pursue the prerequisites, if you want. Keep your options
open. Don't burn any bridges. Consider alternatives, like
physicians assistant or nurse practitioner, that begin with
the same prerequisites.

No intelligent person would look negatively at working while
you study. Don't let your "friends" drag you down.

Just quit for 2 years, buckle down, and work your ass off.
Remember, if you aren't practicing medicine, there's a fair
amount of money (future lost income) that you're not making
since you don't enter medicine until much later. You're
already 32...probably looking at 42 by the time you finish
residency, assuming you don't do a fellowship. I just
finished my phd, and I went through orientation this week
prior to starting my third year of med. schoo, and I can
tell you that at the age of 30, I'm already very tired --
they've been running us around like crazy. Take age into
consideration also. It's better to get the stuff out of the
way now. I originally wanted to do plastics, but now I think
I'm going to just do derm....if I were younger, I would have
probably wanted to still do plastics. But at 32 when I
graduate....

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:45:31 -0700, John S. Clark
<bd@doon.net> wrote:

>I've got a bit of a decision-making crisis and I'm not sure
>what to do, I'm hoping some med students and/or physicians
>might offer some advice. A bit about myself: 32, married,
>no kids, and about 8 years left to pay off our house. I
>work a gravey (but not particularly challenging) 65K/year
>medical field job that only requires working about 120 days
>out of the year. My wife is a school teacher who makes
>about 30K. I've been getting fired up to try to get into
>medical school recently, along with the support and advice
>of several physicians friends. The problem is that I still
>need the prereqs, which I've started picking away at on a
>part-time basis. A couple of my physician friends tell me I
>need to "fish or cut bait," in other words, if I really
>want to get into medical school I need to quit work
>altogether and concentrate completely on my studies. I'm
>understandably a bit nervous about giving up a nice
>paycheck only to find out I might not get into medical
>school. I'd like to pick away at the prereqs, and then
>start applying. If I don't get in anywhere, no harm no
>foul, I've still got my job. My friends tell me my grades
>could suffer (so far they haven't) if I continue to try to
>work and go to school, and that med school admission boards
>may think I'm not serious or committed to my studies if
>they see I didn't concentrate 100% on school. I'd
>appreciate some advice.

"noob" <noobie@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:e40d32690cc382e3124904b1a01df8e....ultrafeed.com...
> Just quit for 2 years, buckle down, and work your ass off.
> Remember, if you aren't practicing medicine, there's a
> fair amount of money (future lost income) that you're not
> making since you don't enter medicine until much later.

Please, anyone going into medicine for the money should be
advised of the many other, vastly superior, ways that there
are to make money.

I was 46 when I graduated from medical school. Age is
meaningless. It's only one of the many variables that may
affect when you die.

true,

but it's a reality too. you have lots of loans, and you have
to start repaying them 3 years after residency starts.
there're currently proposals sponsored by the ama to allow a
longger time for load repayment. speak to your senator and
house rep.

let's face it, u'll make decent money in medicine, once you
finish training you're guaranteed a high 5 digit income at
the very least. but sure, there are other ways to make
money, but they aren't always as safe.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:13:55 GMT, "Dr. Etan"
<Etan@donotspam.com> wrote:

>"noob" <noobie@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:e40d3269-
>0cc382e3124904b1a01df8e0@unlimited.ultrafeed.com...
>> Just quit for 2 years, buckle down, and work your ass
>> off. Remember, if you aren't practicing medicine,
>> there's a fair amount of money (future lost income) that
>> you're not making since you don't enter medicine until
>> much later.
>
>Please, anyone going into medicine for the money should be
>advised of the many other, vastly superior, ways that there
>are to make money.
>
>I was 46 when I graduated from medical school. Age is
>meaningless. It's only one of the many variables that may
>affect when you die.

Count this 42 y/o senior resident as endorsing your
approach. It doesn't sound like your job will interfere too
much with your studies, but you will want good "numbers" in
these classes and especially on the MCATS. You *might* want
to pick up the pace a bit if you can, just so you can get on
to medical school, but I don't think that the Mystical
Phantom Admissions Committee is going to frown on your lack
of commitment. What does your wife think? Are you likely to
have kids in the next couple of years? Will you be able to
attend med school in your current community (thus keeping
your wife's job seniority intact, being able to continue
living in your almost paid off house, etc.)? Can you put
away some money now so that your loan burden at the other
end will be less? What is that specific school like in its
attitude toward "non-traditional" students? Does your
current job/life experience make you an "interesting"
candidate to interview? Going to med school is a multi
dimensional decision.

I totally disagree with your friends about the "less than
100%" issue, but maybe things are more relaxed here in
the Midwest.

Scott Oakman Addiction Psychiatry Fellow University of
Michigan

John S. Clark <bd@doon.net> wrote in message
news:<4v3md0h458ehl9ra3aplk3u7o778uq8iru@4ax.com>...
> I've got a bit of a decision-making crisis and I'm not
> sure what to do, I'm hoping some med students and/or
> physicians might offer some advice. A bit about myself:
> 32, married, no kids, and about 8 years left to pay off
> our house. I work a gravey (but not particularly
> challenging) 65K/year medical field job that only requires
> working about 120 days out of the year. My wife is a
> school teacher who makes about 30K. I've been getting
> fired up to try to get into medical school recently, along
> with the support and advice of several physicians friends.
> The problem is that I still need the prereqs, which I've
> started picking away at on a part-time basis. A couple of
> my physician friends tell me I need to "fish or cut bait,"
> in other words, if I really want to get into medical
> school I need to quit work altogether and concentrate
> completely on my studies. I'm understandably a bit nervous
> about giving up a nice paycheck only to find out I might
> not get into medical school. I'd like to pick away at the
> prereqs, and then start applying. If I don't get in
> anywhere, no harm no foul, I've still got my job. My
> friends tell me my grades could suffer (so far they
> haven't) if I continue to try to work and go to school,
> and that med school admission boards may think I'm not
> serious or committed to my studies if they see I didn't
> concentrate 100% on school. I'd appreciate some advice.

On 28 Jun 2004 07:38:22 -0700, saoakman@yahoo.com (Scott Oakman)
wrote:

Wow, thanks for giving me some stuff to think about. My wife
is supportive and we have no plans to have children. There
are no medical schools anywhere near where I live so I would
be looking at having to sell and move should I get in
anywhere. I realize that I may not be able to work and take
the tougher classes like O-Chem at the same time. I work a
staggered shift schedule so night and weekend classes won't
help. In a given month I'd miss probably 5 classroom days.
Not only do I have to find a professor who will allow that,
but I don't know whether I could pull that off and still get
a good grade. I may be looking at taking everything but the
toughest prereq's while still working, and then look at
taking an unpaid leave to finish the others.

I don't know, I'd like to think I'd be an interesting
candidate to interview, but I'm probably pretty average.
I've work as a paramedic for 15 years in a busy urban
environment and I've authored a few clinical articles in peer-
review, Medline-indexed journals. In fact my inspiration in
all this is a former coworker of mine who spent 20 years as
a paramedic before taking the leap. He entered med school at
41 and now has his own practice. He is one of the people
saying "drop everything now" and work full time on getting
into a program (as he
did). He tells me not to worry, he "knows" I'll get in
somewhere. I know he's just trying to help, but that's
easy for him to say from the comfort of his six figure
oncology practice. I've got to be realistic, I know the
chances of someone my age getting in anywhere are pretty
poor. No sense in "burning all my bridges," as one
poster said, and totally screwing up any return routes
should things not work out.

John

>Count this 42 y/o senior resident as endorsing your
>approach. It doesn't sound like your job will interfere too
>much with your studies, but you will want good "numbers" in
>these classes and especially on the MCATS. You *might* want
>to pick up the pace a bit if you can, just so you can get
>on to medical school, but I don't think that the Mystical
>Phantom Admissions Committee is going to frown on your lack
>of commitment. What does your wife think? Are you likely to
>have kids in the next couple of years? Will you be able to
>attend med school in your current community (thus keeping
>your wife's job seniority intact, being able to continue
>living in your almost paid off house, etc.)? Can you put
>away some money now so that your loan burden at the other
>end will be less? What is that specific school like in its
>attitude toward "non-traditional" students? Does your
>current job/life experience make you an "interesting"
>candidate to interview? Going to med school is a multi
>dimensional decision.
>
>I totally disagree with your friends about the "less than
>100%" issue, but maybe things are more relaxed here in
>the Midwest.
>
>Scott Oakman Addiction Psychiatry Fellow University
>of Michigan

John S. Clark wrote:
> I've got a bit of a decision-making crisis and I'm not
> sure what to do, I'm hoping some med students and/or
> physicians might offer some advice. A bit about myself:
> 32, married, no kids, and about 8 years left to pay off
> our house. I work a gravey (but not particularly
> challenging) 65K/year medical field job that only requires
> working about 120 days out of the year. My wife is a
> school teacher who makes about 30K. I've been getting
> fired up to try to get into medical school recently, along
> with the support and advice of several physicians friends.
> The problem is that I still need the prereqs, which I've
> started picking away at on a part-time basis. A couple of
> my physician friends tell me I need to "fish or cut bait,"
> in other words, if I really want to get into medical
> school I need to quit work altogether and concentrate
> completely on my studies. I'm understandably a bit nervous
> about giving up a nice paycheck only to find out I might
> not get into medical school. I'd like to pick away at the
> prereqs, and then start applying. If I don't get in
> anywhere, no harm no foul, I've still got my job. My
> friends tell me my grades could suffer (so far they
> haven't) if I continue to try to work and go to school,
> and that med school admission boards may think I'm not
> serious or committed to my studies if they see I didn't
> concentrate 100% on school. I'd appreciate some advice.
>
>

I am taking the slow route with great success. I'm in a
similar situation to you though I come from the IT
industry vs. a Health care field. I am 31 now married with
a beautiful 2 year old daughter. I'm 6 years from owning
my house and have no other significant debt. I received my
BBA in 1997.

I originally went to university to pursue a Biology degree
and Medical School but quickly found that I did not have the
discipline to succeed and so fell back upon my hobby at the
time, computers. Eleven years later I decided after much
deliberation and research to return to school part time and
complete the prereqs for application to med school. I will
sit the August MCAT and have already finished all my primary
and secondary applications for entrance in the '05 year.
Honestly I give myself about a 50/50 chance of getting in. I
think I am an interesting candidate, but will ultimately
depend upon whether the admin boards think I'm interesting.
I do have some health care experience through volunteer work
in the recent past.

I've taken 7, 4, 7, 4 hours in the last 4 major semesters
respectively and have a 3.8 GPA in those courses. Orgo I &
II, Bio I & II a Bio research course and a CHEM I course.
All the other prereqs I have from my degree plan or will
complete prior to matriculation.

But more to your question. My job is a typical 8-5 day
unlike yours. My employer was willing to let me leave for
1-2 hours in the late morning to attend class regularly as
long as I still had my hours and my projects were
completed/progressing. I still had weeks where I worked 50+
hours. I did all my studying after my daughter went to bed
and I was able to do well in the classes even though I am
not terribly academically inclined.

I think it can be done either way without conveying a lack
of commitment. I think though that the major downside in the
part time solution is your uneven work schedule. Going the
full time route has the disadvantage of losing the income.
Both very large factors to consider. Don't consider your age
as a factor. If you are serious it won't matter.

--Shawn

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:14:25 -0500, TeKn0 <no.thanks@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>I've taken 7, 4, 7, 4 hours in the last 4 major semesters
>respectively and have a 3.8 GPA in those courses. Orgo I &
>II, Bio I & II a Bio research course and a CHEM I course.
>All the other prereqs I have from my degree plan or will
>complete prior to matriculation.
>

>--Shawn

I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I guess I'm confused on how
med school admissions work. I was under the impression all
prerequisites had to be completed before you could apply. If
I'm reading your post right, do you mean one can still apply
for admissions after the MCAT even though you might not have
all prerequisites completed? If so, I'll need to revise my
"plan" to take that into account.

Please be aware that certain (not all) schools require that
the prereqs. be taken w/in a certain timeframe before
consideration for admission. For instance, USC (at least
when I applied) had a requirement that the MCAT be taken no
more than 1 year prior to application. That was definitely
one of the stricter schools, but you may want to be aware of
this and factor it into your decision-making/planning.

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:43:09 -0700, John S. Clark
<bd@doon.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:14:25 -0500, TeKn0
><no.thanks@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've taken 7, 4, 7, 4 hours in the last 4 major semesters
>>respectively and have a 3.8 GPA in those courses. Orgo I &
>>II, Bio I & II a Bio research course and a CHEM I course.
>>All the other prereqs I have from my degree plan or will
>>complete prior to matriculation.
>>
>
>>--Shawn
>
>I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I guess I'm confused on how
>med school admissions work. I was under the impression all
>prerequisites had to be completed before you could apply.
>If I'm reading your post right, do you mean one can still
>apply for admissions after the MCAT even though you might
>not have all prerequisites completed? If so, I'll need to
>revise my "plan" to take that into account.

John S. Clark wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:14:25 -0500, TeKn0
> <no.thanks@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>I've taken 7, 4, 7, 4 hours in the last 4 major semesters
>>respectively and have a 3.8 GPA in those courses. Orgo I &
>>II, Bio I & II a Bio research course and a CHEM I course.
>>All the other prereqs I have from my degree plan or will
>>complete prior to matriculation.
>>
>
>
>>--Shawn
>
>
> I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I guess I'm confused on
> how med school admissions work. I was under the impression
> all prerequisites had to be completed before you could
> apply. If I'm reading your post right, do you mean one can
> still apply for admissions after the MCAT even though you
> might not have all prerequisites completed? If so, I'll
> need to revise my "plan" to take that into account.
>
>

I am applying only in Texas. All the schools I applied to
require the prereqs to be completed prior to matriculation
not prior to application.

There are some schools that require the prereqs prior to
application.

For certain you should get a copy of the MSAR which details
most everything there is to know for all the US medical
schools. Tuition, affinity for non-traditional(bent arrows),
prereqs, deadlines. Best $20 you can spend.

http://tinyurl.com/3f5ea

--Shawn