Squat Question

A question about squats, which I have added into my routine a few months
back. At 53 years I am happy with my overall improvements but I am not sure
I am doing the right thing with squats. I am 75 kg and do my warm up set of
10-12 with 50kg on the bar. I can do them almost ATTG. Then I do a set of
10 70 kg and not quite ATTG then another set of 10 at 100 kg but they are
only partial. I finish of with a set of 10 at 60 kg which by that stage I
am loose so I can do them with very good form. So my question is do I keep
doing the heavier (for me) partials (100 kg) or concentrate on keeping
doing lower weight but great form and only moving on up when I can do say 3
sets of 10 reps with good form?

TIA

Bob

On 7 Feb 2005 18:22:27 +1050, rev <volkmer@gggmail.com> wrote:

>A question about squats, which I have added into my routine a few months
>back. At 53 years I am happy with my overall improvements but I am not sure
>I am doing the right thing with squats. I am 75 kg and do my warm up set of
>10-12 with 50kg on the bar. I can do them almost ATTG. Then I do a set of
>10 70 kg and not quite ATTG then another set of 10 at 100 kg but they are
>only partial. I finish of with a set of 10 at 60 kg which by that stage I
>am loose so I can do them with very good form. So my question is do I keep
>doing the heavier (for me) partials (100 kg) or concentrate on keeping
>doing lower weight but great form and only moving on up when I can do say 3
>sets of 10 reps with good form?
>
>TIA
>
>Bob

Lower weight, keep form.

BB
--
www.kruse.co.uk SEO@kruse.demon.co.uk
home of Search Engine Optimization that's shiny!
--

Lower weight good form. The more range of motion you create during a
movment the more muscle fibers your using. And more fibers getting
stimulated will result in better/stronger legs over the longterm. Ive
seen people in my gym using 405lbs on the squat with small legs..they
only do partial reps. I can use 405lbs to parallel and my legs are much
larger.

Tony Kehl
Developing Fitness Programs for Individuals
simplefi@simplefitness.biz
www.simplefitness.biz

"rev" <volkmer@gggmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95F6BAE99CA84bvolkmerbigpondnetau@203.16.214.244...
>A question about squats, which I have added into my routine a few
>months
> back. At 53 years I am happy with my overall improvements but I am not
> sure
> I am doing the right thing with squats. I am 75 kg and do my warm up
> set of
> 10-12 with 50kg on the bar. I can do them almost ATTG. Then I do a set
> of
> 10 70 kg and not quite ATTG then another set of 10 at 100 kg but they
> are
> only partial. I finish of with a set of 10 at 60 kg which by that
> stage I
> am loose so I can do them with very good form. So my question is do I
> keep
> doing the heavier (for me) partials (100 kg) or concentrate on keeping
> doing lower weight but great form and only moving on up when I can do
> say 3
> sets of 10 reps with good form?

There is some precedent for putting more weight on the bar than you can
squat to full depth. Lots of folks do walk outs, where they load a lot
of weight on the bar, unrack it, stand there or walk around a little,
then put the weight back again. I don't think there's a lot of benefit
to be had by doing 10 reps of partials with more weight than you can
fully squat, but I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water and
get rid of overloading your squats at least some of the time, either.

I've done the following workout a few times and liked the results for
myself: Do a few warmups, then load the bar really heavy and walk out
with it for just one rep, then lighten the bar somewhat and do a very
partial squat of only a few inches, and keep lowering the weight and
squatting deeper, moving down in weight and depth both until you reach
your work weight and proper depth. The idea is to make your work set
feel lighter, but since you've already had a lot of weight on your back,
don't go crazy with the work sets. I'm relatively new to squatting and
I feel like this has been a plateau buster for me a few times now, but I
can't say whether it would work as well for someone who's been squatting
for years.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <Xns95F6BAE99CA84bvolkmerbigpondnetau@203.16.214.244>, rev
<volkmer@gggmail.com> wrote:

> A question about squats, which I have added into my routine a few months
> back. At 53 years I am happy with my overall improvements but I am not sure
> I am doing the right thing with squats. I am 75 kg and do my warm up set of
> 10-12 with 50kg on the bar. I can do them almost ATTG. Then I do a set of
> 10 70 kg and not quite ATTG then another set of 10 at 100 kg but they are
> only partial. I finish of with a set of 10 at 60 kg which by that stage I
> am loose so I can do them with very good form. So my question is do I keep
> doing the heavier (for me) partials (100 kg) or concentrate on keeping
> doing lower weight but great form and only moving on up when I can do say 3
> sets of 10 reps with good form?

It depends. ($1 to Lyle)

Why are you doing squats? Personally for overall strength and health I'd
recommend going as deep as possible while keeping good form. But if you
are a powerlifter than there is a pervasive reason for doing a partial
(just below parallel). If you are in some other sports there can be a
reason for partials as well.

But as a general rule of thumb I'd be doing them as deep as I can with a
weight I can use for good form.

rev wrote:
> A question about squats, which I have added into my routine a few
> months back. At 53 years I am happy with my overall improvements but
> I am not sure I am doing the right thing with squats. I am 75 kg and
> do my warm up set of 10-12 with 50kg on the bar. I can do them almost
> ATTG. Then I do a set of 10 70 kg and not quite ATTG then another set
> of 10 at 100 kg but they are only partial. I finish of with a set of
> 10 at 60 kg which by that stage I am loose so I can do them with very
> good form. So my question is do I keep doing the heavier (for me)
> partials (100 kg) or concentrate on keeping doing lower weight but
> great form and only moving on up when I can do say 3 sets of 10 reps
> with good form?
>
> TIA
>
> Bob

Some time ago, I had the same question. Keith (Hobbes) recommended doing
full "ass to the grass" squats rather than just parallel. Of course, to do
that, I had to drop my weight. But the amount I lift isn't important to me,
but rather a complete workout *and* protection from injury. Keith's
contention is that doing full squats (hams against your calves) is less
stressful on your knees. I've been doing squats that way now for about six
months. I agree.
--
-Larry

You are doing one mistake - repeating 10 reps all 3 sets. After the
warm-up set, do one 10 reps set. Then increase the weight to do one 8
reps set - put such weight that your last rep is done to the failure
(or almost). Then increase the weight and do one 6 reps set to the
failure. If you are still alive, you can increase the weight and do the
last 5 reps set.

Partial squats are good to increase your strength, but you should do
them not regularly, do them when you reached the plateau with regular
squats, then return to regular squats.

You can find some tips on squats at:
http://www.gymgoal.com/exs.jsp

In article <1107815345.477516.114160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"bellfit" <bellfit@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You are doing one mistake - repeating 10 reps all 3 sets. After the
> warm-up set, do one 10 reps set. Then increase the weight to do one 8
> reps set - put such weight that your last rep is done to the failure
> (or almost). Then increase the weight and do one 6 reps set to the
> failure. If you are still alive, you can increase the weight and do the
> last 5 reps set.

For the purpose of strength development there is no need to go this close
to failure. The rep count is also aimed at hypertrophy - if strength and
ROM are the main training goals there is no need to do that many reps or
to train so close to failure.
>
> Partial squats are good to increase your strength, but you should do
> them not regularly, do them when you reached the plateau with regular
> squats, then return to regular squats.

Partials squats only increase strength in the ROM of movement. See the
study quoted extensively in Zatsiorsky's book, "Science and Practise of
Strength Training". There is virtually no carryover from from the partial
movement to a full movement while there is 100% carryover from the full
movement to a partial movement. Given that, unless there is a sport
specific reason to develop strength in the partial movement you are much
better off doing the full ROM.

Biomechanically the partial movement places much more stress on the knees
due to the increased amount of weight which can be used and the
elimination of other surfaces to redistribute the stress during the
amortization phase. So why would a person doing squats for general fitness
follow your advice? It only develops strength on the partial movement,
places the knees at risk and doesn't develop flexibility.
>
> You can find some tips on squats at:
> http://www.gymgoal.com/exs.jsp

Since I'm not planning on joining this site could you elaborate on what
tips we may find there?

khobman@sasktel.net (Hobbes) wrote:
>
>"bellfit" <bellfit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> You can find some tips on squats at:
>> http://www.gymgoal.com/exs.jsp
>
>Since I'm not planning on joining this site could you elaborate on what
>tips we may find there?

A $15.00 quarterly charge for access.

<sniff> Do I smell spam cooking?
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

In article <p4tf0151ivrt08eui1vvljs67frvib13qn@4ax.com>, JMW
<jmw@event.horizon> wrote:

> khobman@sasktel.net (Hobbes) wrote:
> >
> >"bellfit" <bellfit@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> You can find some tips on squats at:
> >> http://www.gymgoal.com/exs.jsp
> >
> >Since I'm not planning on joining this site could you elaborate on what
> >tips we may find there?
>
> A $15.00 quarterly charge for access.
>
> <sniff> Do I smell spam cooking?

You have a good nose.

bellfit <bellfit@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You are doing one mistake

As are you. Please learn to quote properly.

Thanks!

"JMW" <jmw@event.horizon> wrote in message
news4tf0151ivrt08eui1vvljs67frvib13qn@4ax.com...
> khobman@sasktel.net (Hobbes) wrote:
>>
>>"bellfit" <bellfit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You can find some tips on squats at:
>>> http://www.gymgoal.com/exs.jsp
>>
>>Since I'm not planning on joining this site could you elaborate on what
>>tips we may find there?
>
> A $15.00 quarterly charge for access.
>
> <sniff> Do I smell spam cooking?
> --
>
> JMW
> http://www.rustyiron.net

I was able to access the exercises w/o joining....was it just a teaser?
Kristen

Kristen wrote:
> "JMW" <jmw@event.horizon> wrote:
> > khobman@sasktel.net (Hobbes) wrote:
> >>"bellfit" <bellfit@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You can find some tips on squats at:
> >>> http://www.gymgoal.com/exs.jsp
> >>
> >>Since I'm not planning on joining this site could
> >>you elaborate on what
> >>tips we may find there?
> >
> > A $15.00 quarterly charge for access.
> >
> > <sniff> Do I smell spam cooking?
>
> I was able to access the exercises w/o joining....was it
> just a teaser?

Check the other links. He has a whole pay program.

The pages:

http://www.gymgoal.com/exs.jsp
http://www.gymgoal.com/foods.jsp

are free. The first one is a exercise database (230 exercises). You
access it through a body map with some additional filters. The second
page is a food database (copy of the official USDA database, 6,700+
items, with much better interface than on USDA website).

If you subscribe, you pay for much more interactive features, which I
don't advertise here.

"Hobbes" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
news:khobman-0702051651210001@192.168.0.48...
>
> Partials squats only increase strength in the ROM of movement. See the
> study quoted extensively in Zatsiorsky's book, "Science and Practise of
> Strength Training". There is virtually no carryover from from the partial
> movement to a full movement while there is 100% carryover from the full
> movement to a partial movement. Given that, unless there is a sport
> specific reason to develop strength in the partial movement you are much
> better off doing the full ROM.

Right- no one asked what rev's goal was in the 1st place. There could very
well be a place for partial rom squats in his workout if he has some
specific goals in mind. I agree with what you say about partal range work
strengthening that range. What you need to do if you are doing something
like a partial squat is to do another squat that counters that. I've had
pretty good success with after doing my warmups, hitting 1 set of parallel
squats, 1 set of high box squats for top end work with heavier weight, then
dropping weight and doing a set of deep paused squats to build power out of
the bottom.