RPE (+HR?) vs Power for TTs - Page 3

Yep. But, I don't think the up/down variations in Ric's example (or most others) would be of the 15 sec variety.

Maybe that's all it is, but the 4th power "penalty" gets my attention.

FWIW, I was in my LBS today and talked wheels with the owner, a serious cyclist and racer (40K MP >400w). He said that Zipp has already built a disc wheel with a PT SL hub, but he thinks they haven't decided when to market it. I also asked him what wheel set he would buy for a PT hub if he could only have one wheel set for all races (TTs, crits and RRs). He said he'd probably go with the Zipp 404s.

Unless he's huge...I call bull****!

Just for you, Roadie_scum, I did an experiment today on my ride. After I was good and warmed up and was riding on a long, flat, smooth section of road, I tried to ride at 250w without looking at my PM. I picked 250w because it is well within my normal range, not too high and not too low. I got up to speed, settled down my cadence for about a minute and tried to ride as steadily as possible at what I thought was 250w. I looked down at my PM and it read 389w! So, realizing that my "feel" was biased on the high side, I did it again. I did better -- 289w. I tried it again -- 295w. Then I really got upset with myself for not "learning" my bias more quickly. The next two were 221w and 226w. So, the closest I ever got to 250w was 24w off. Granted, this is a sample of one and I have only been training with power for a little over two months. But, at this point in time I would have to characterize my ability to manage my power without reference to my PM in one word -- pitiful!

you'll get much better over time. especially after doing a bunch of L4/5/6 intervals etc. I found those really helped me (to steal the term) "calibrate my PE". I'd honestly say I'm about +/-5% on an average day estimated power versus actual. And over an entire ride I can usually get my TSS score to within 10 points of actual (as another example of calibration).

No doubt that on a super day I could be high another few % and off the same on the low side on a bad day.

My main bugaboo remains starting out our ~21k TT's at close to Vo2max pace!! The adrenalin and rabbits up the road simply make it very hard to stay contained. I glance at the PM in the 1st ~2k to stay under 110% of threshold. After 3-4k, I've usually settled into a sustainable pace and I only glance at the PM to ensure I'm going as hard as I think. At that point, I can usually only read process the 1st digit anyway . 2xx is bad, 3xx is good, 4x x is dangerous.

On our long course TT's, I don't have that problem as I know there's 50K to cover with significant long grades in the 20-30k region, i.e. blowing up is NOT a good option

rmur

No they aren't. Think of it as the same genius marketing that put Star Wars Phantom Menace out on VHS before the DVD... Everybody bought the VHS, because it was all they could get. THEN, a year later around Christmas, they released it on DVD, and we all bought the same movie... AGAIN...

Same with the wheels. There is no competitor, per se, Sell as many as you can, then sell a different version that everybody wants to own. But as far off as possible. Same with the wireless PT hub we are all dreaming of. There's another thing I'll have to own... ... genius I tell you.

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"Was" 39 year old guy Blood pressure: 143/84, Resting Pulse: 68, weight: 230
"summer 2004" 40 year old guy. Blood pressure: 121/66, Resting pulse: 45, weight: 175
1-1-2005 Blood pressure: 115/55, Resting pulse: 44, weight: 170
6-1-2005 Blood pressure: 105/52, resting pulse: 40, weight: 175
40k-TT, 1:05

Just how long were these tests? Surely after a few minutes, you'd have figured out that 389w thing was to high, without looking. I bet done over time, you'd be where you think you should have been.

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"Was" 39 year old guy Blood pressure: 143/84, Resting Pulse: 68, weight: 230
"summer 2004" 40 year old guy. Blood pressure: 121/66, Resting pulse: 45, weight: 175
1-1-2005 Blood pressure: 115/55, Resting pulse: 44, weight: 170
6-1-2005 Blood pressure: 105/52, resting pulse: 40, weight: 175
40k-TT, 1:05

I thought that was because they were still finishing the DVD special features, but the VHS was ready to go. I guess they could have held up the VHS, but why do that since there's no reason that the 2 product releases have to correspond? Anyway, I know at least *someone* who simply waited for the DVD....

With all the transmission problems you've had, you're going to tell us that they should be releasing a wireless version? Frankly, I'm okay waiting for them to perfect the 3" transmission before I ask for a 40" coded signal.

Well, I inadvertantly tested my ability to pace myself using RPE+HR today as shortly after leaving home I somehow put my PT into "cycling computer" mode and couldn't figure out how to get it out of that without the manual. The upshot was no power readout, just HR (off my Polar) for my 2x20. It sucked. I've used a power meter for over a year now and I think that I'm actually worse at pacing using HR now than I was before because of lack of practice. I found that I'm so used to relying on the power number in front of me that I really wasn't sure how hard I should be going (until I started to blow up of course -- then I knew I was going too hard!).

Lanier

I'm chuckling with you, Lanier. I can so relate. I suck too.

The problem is, by the time you get the feedback you need to adjust (your legs burn, you breathe heavily and you are forced to drop intensity), you are forced to pay a large penalty and it is impossible to maintain the power you otherwise would have managed.

On the other hand, I did once watch my coach ride 6 X 7.1km laps on almost perfectly even splits to get 2nd in a TT on HR alone.

I held the power/cadence steady for ~1 min before looking at the watts. Yes, I would have figured out I was going too hard shortly and would have been forced to back off. But, I would pay dearly for the time spent above my sustainable power because I would have had to recover longer than the duration of the excess power segment. You will always pay a price for inadvertent pacing above your sustainable power level >15 secs.

What a guy! Thanks RD...

I hate wires. I'd rather suffer through poor transmission without the additional zip ties and wires everywhere. What a way to ruin the lines of a really cleanly designed bike (put wires everywhere). I've got the most aero frame they make, and now I'm distrubing the way the air moves over the frame with about 8 zip ties and wires everywhere. What this also means is that I will very likely have to "toughen up" a second time when the wireless comes out.

And for Pete sake, make the thing work with a Polar chest strap.

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"Was" 39 year old guy Blood pressure: 143/84, Resting Pulse: 68, weight: 230
"summer 2004" 40 year old guy. Blood pressure: 121/66, Resting pulse: 45, weight: 175
1-1-2005 Blood pressure: 115/55, Resting pulse: 44, weight: 170
6-1-2005 Blood pressure: 105/52, resting pulse: 40, weight: 175
40k-TT, 1:05

I'll agree to that. But really, for longer periods of time, don't you feel you could pace off of HR alone? Your heart doesn't care what your watts are, just when you go to far, and we all know there is a lag, and I think most of us can pretty accurately account for the lag. If you know that from past riding, that you are cranking out 250 watts at 140hr, then it stands to reason, and would be better than guessing, that 140hr and some feelings of PE should get you pretty dang close, especially on flater terrain.

and on the above scenario, where you overclocked yourself, the HR meter should have been climbing pretty rapidly, depending on where you started. That's a pretty good indicator you may be cooking it.

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"Was" 39 year old guy Blood pressure: 143/84, Resting Pulse: 68, weight: 230
"summer 2004" 40 year old guy. Blood pressure: 121/66, Resting pulse: 45, weight: 175
1-1-2005 Blood pressure: 115/55, Resting pulse: 44, weight: 170
6-1-2005 Blood pressure: 105/52, resting pulse: 40, weight: 175
40k-TT, 1:05