Is the following possible for an indoor trainer with this budget?

Weather will be getting iffy here in the NorthEast of the US soon. I'm in need of an indoor trainer.

As important as the trainer is the ability to gauge my progress througout the winter via WATTAGE.

I wish I had a $1000 so that I could go Power Tap or to some other high-end indoor/outdoor solution. However, I just don't have that kind of money right now.
What I'm looking at for a budget is somewhere $300 to $500.

Is it possible in this price range to purchase an indoor trainer that will give me:
a.) wattage (cur, avg, max) - a must have / need
b.) a close to true road feel - a must have / need
c.) the ability to save data for placing in a graph - HR, CAD, SPEED, TIME - not real-time but for post ride analysis - not a need, but close to it.
d.) the ability to save data for placing in a graph, basically c.) but in real-time. - not a need, but this would obviously be a bonus
e.) a real-time computer program with simulation of different road conditions, trials, races etc. - a future desire which is probably out of my price range right now.

Even if you have a solution that involves A and B above, with C to be added later, I could eventually scratch up the money throughout the winter to get to C or D. That would also be something I'm interested in.

The models I have done some research on all seem to have 1 or 2 things missing from the ideal trainer.

CycleOps - Fluid 2 - doesn't seem to have wattage at all.
Kurt Kinetic Road - has wattage but (as far as I can tell) has no integration for graphing HR, CAD, SPEED, TIME on a graph.
Power Tap - too expensive
IBike - useless indoors
Nashbar Watt Master Fluid Trainer - no pc integration

Any thoughts? Am I in a similar boat as a lot of folks?

dave

__________________
2007 Jamis Race - stock / Cateye Astrale 8 computer

No.

My Velotron does everything you list in addition to other requirements I had (accuracy, big flywheel, and a chain drive rather than a tire-drum interface). Options for indoor training are few and the more requirements you have, the higher the price goes.

I would take a hard look at the Travel Trac (made by Elite) Real Axiom Virtual Reality Trainer sold through Performance. They are ~$150 (with discounts) over your budget but worth it, IMO. It is not a true ergometer in the purists' sense, however, the information provided is consistent. Go to Performance's website for the details...

I have one and for a 1/3 of the cost (I paid $450) of a Computrainer I get ~90% of the Computrainer's performance. Accuracy (some on this forum scoff at the idea of using anything less than one of the actual power meters; i.e. PT, SRM Ergomo, etc...) being relative, I can track my training performance numbers against my previous workouts regardless of comparing figures with other people's true power meters. How I'm training today compared to last week or last month is what matters. Besides, I paid a fraction of what they paid ...

Tony,

Good post! Obviously you read what I wrote and didn't just take it as a chance to justify your purchase in this area, or take the chance to brag about your $8000 machine.

If someone where able to place an integrated USB Key to the Nashbar computer or the add on computer for the Kurt Kinetic, they might really have something that could be of great use to many of us who are serious but looking to spend less money but get some of the data. Off of the attached LED and into a computer.

I will take a look at the Real Axiom. It may be scoffed at by some, but it's getting the measureables for my own performance that is important to me.

< How I'm training today compared to last week or last month is what matters.

Very true. I need something that will give me my results, it doesn't matter if the wattage is off a bit, so long as the unit is true in 2 months to the calibration today. I can always calculate most of the other numbers off of the Cateye Astrale 8 that runs off my back wheel.

Even though it's $150 more than I stated in the budget, that's the kind of information I was looking for.

Many thanks for a useful reply!

Dave

__________________
2007 Jamis Race - stock / Cateye Astrale 8 computer

Wanting more than one can afford? Yeah, I'd say so.

What's hurting your choices the most is the automatic importing of data to a PC. Ingenious people on the tightest budgets have overcome that by pulling numbers off the trainer's power curve and printing out a chart that they can tape on their handlebars for convenient conversion of speed to power, and then manually entering the relative power numbers into their PC spreadsheet for tracking. It doesn't do everything you want, but it will allow you to track your progress through the winter training.

You can get a used powertap for the upper end of your price range or maybe a bit more. I think that would be far more useful than even the fanciest of ergometers. In order to get the most benefit out of power training, you need to be able to measure power every time you ride, and only an on-bike power meter can allow you to do that.

New No Used Maybe

__________________
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. http://www.earnharts.com/html/realau...cific.asp?id=3

Do you already have a cycle computer with downloadable HR, CAD, SPEED, & TIME? Because if you do I would recommend the Kurt Kinetic Road. It has a good road feel and a very consistent speed-power curve that you can use to convert speed from your cycle computer into power (i.e., you don't need the Kurt Kinetic computer to get power). You can then put the data in Excel to make graphs etc. This would be a fairly cheap option. (It's not a bad option even if you add in buying a new cycle computer with downloadable stats.)

Furthermore, if you eventually get a power meter for your bike, you wouldn't need a new trainer to use it indoors.

I have CAD, SPEED and Time currently through the Astrale 8 - which is back wheel mounted. I could get the HR via a watch without much trouble.

I was leaning toward the Kurt Kinetic over the other Fluid trainers. Mostly because of it's excellent reputation and solid feel. Also, because it does have a Wattage meter for only $40. Maybe the best way to go about this is to work it via increments.

Kurt Kinetic, then add the Wattage meter, then save some more over the winter and introduce a used or new Power Tap. If going used I could probably do this all for under $1000 and spread it out a bit.

I had done a bit of research before asking all of this, just wasn't sure if anyone had found some 3rd party tool to integrate any of the better known Fluid trainers with a computer. Glad to see so many good suggestions. I think I'll use a combination of all your suggestions and spread it out but have everything I need to roll with power in and outdoors by the spring.

Dave

__________________
2007 Jamis Race - stock / Cateye Astrale 8 computer

The KK is a great trainer. You don't need the wattage meter. It's just a speedometer that references the table Wiredued likes to post on these forums or this graph: http://www.kurtkinetic.com/pdfs/Power_Curves419.pdf

If you want the readout to display watts as you ride the trainer then spend the $40 but if you just want the accuracy all you need to do is print the power to speed table and go through the setup proceduce: http://www.kurtkinetic.com/computer_tech.php

Personally I'd print the chart and save your $40 towards a PowerTap system. FWIW I bought all my PT systems used on ebay and haven't had a lemon yet. You can get some pretty good deals there, especially over the winter months when folks aren't focused on riding.

Good luck,
Dave

The KK Road Machine computer is a little on the cheap side and doesn't have cadence so it really wasn't worth having it on my handlebars. I use a 2006 Cateye Astrale 8 it's a wired rear wheel with cadence bike computer that doesn't take up much space. This chart works just as good.

Formula 5.244820x + .019168x^3

17mph=183.33w
17.1mph=185.53w
17.2mph=187.74w
17.3mph=189.98w
17.4mph=192.23w
17.5mph=194.51w
17.6mph=196.80w
17.7mph=199.12w
17.8mph=201.46w
17.9mph=203.81w
18mph=206.19w
18.1mph=208.59w
18.2mph=211.01w
18.3mph=213.45w
18.4mph=215.91w
18.5mph=218.39w
18.6mph=220.89w
18.7mph=223.42w
18.8mph=225.96w
18.9mph=228.53w
19mph=231.12w
19.1mph=233.73w
19.2mph=236.36w
19.3mph=239.02w
19.4mph=241.70w
19.5mph=244.40w
19.6mph=247.12w
19.7mph=249.86w
19.8mph=252.63w
19.9mph=255.42w
20mph=258.24w
20.1mph=261.07w
20.2mph=263.93w
20.3mph=266.81w
20.4mph=269.72w
20.5mph=272.65w
20.6mph=275.60w
20.7mph=278.58w
20.8mph=281.58w
20.9mph=284.60w
21mph=287.65w
21.1mph=290.72w
21.2mph=293.82w
21.3mph=296.94w
21.4mph=300.09w
21.5mph=303.26w
21.6mph=306.45w
21.7mph=309.67w
21.8mph=312.92w
21.9mph=316.19w
22mph=319.48w
22.1mph=322.80w
22.2mph=326.15w
22.3mph=329.52w
22.4mph=332.92w
22.5mph=336.34w
22.6mph=339.79w
22.7mph=343.26w
22.8mph=346.76w
22.9mph=350.29w
23mph=353.84w
23.1mph=357.42w
23.2mph=361.03w
23.3mph=364.66w
23.4mph=368.32w
23.5mph=372.01w
23.6mph=375.72w
23.7mph=379.46w
23.8mph=383.23w
23.9mph=387.03w
24mph=390.85w
24.1mph=394.70w
24.2mph=398.58w
24.3mph=402.48w
24.4mph=406.42w
24.5mph=410.38w
24.6mph=414.37w
24.7mph=418.39w
24.8mph=422.44w
24.9mph=426.51w
25mph=430.62w
25.1mph=434.75w......Lance Armstrong FTP maybe
25.2mph=438.91w
25.3mph=443.10w
25.4mph=447.32w
25.5mph=451.57w
25.6mph=455.85w
25.7mph=460.16w
25.8mph=464.49w
25.9mph=468.86w
26mph=473.26w

__________________
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. http://www.earnharts.com/html/realau...cific.asp?id=3