Will Polar make a good power meter someday?

I have never used a Polar power meter, so I don't have first-hand knowledge, but the reviews I see are not so good. It just amazes me because their other products are quite good. My guess is that Polar will completely overhaul it soon.

From a business point of view, there must be some good margins in power meters, so I'd think they'd want to compete. But why pay $600 for a Polar that pretty much bites when you can get a Powertap for $750-$800 that is great.

If you have a triple and/or don't have SRM money and you want to have two sets of wheels I would consider it (probably wouldn't buy it though). PT for $750? New? Where?

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I have the cs 600 and have had no problems, I believe the problems were in the first batches but have now improved

Maybe Tom_Anhalt will join in here? I believe that he will tell you that if properly installed, a Polar can be reasonably accurate and dependable.

There's your problem right there. Every review I have read suggests that it is accurate and reliable. Whenever I see traces posted comparing a polar to another meter, the results seem reasonably close.

There are, however, many opinions (these may be the "reviews" you speak of - often by people who don't own one) that suggest it is not that good. I just find it funny that most people who use one report that it works well, but it gets such bad press among those who have never used one.

The polars have their technical issues, but so do other meters. Once these issues are dealt with the units work well. I have had a CS600 for several months and it gives me consistent and seemingly reasonable numbers (I do not have another meter to compare).

Joe

What are people's experiences on ergo/turbo trainers?

I have clients that use them but on trainers the data is, well, pretty useless. Despite significant attempts to provide lots of vibration dampening, the signals just go crazy once power goes above a certain level.

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It's definitely the weak point of the CS600.
But otherwise it's a very good and reliable product (I'm talking about the last wireless version) IF you take time to carefully install it.
On top the software that goes along is excellent compared to the PT's .

The data is suspect on my KK fluid. The numbers are very consistent and seem to relate to the published KK numbers in the small ring (but that said both are reading low compared to an outdoor ride). In the large ring, the numbers go way high.

Joe

Hey Alex


I'm curious about your clients who have polars and use them on a trainer. Do you find the numbers recorded on the trainer higher or lower than expected? Or is there simply no pattern.

For example, I struggle to maintain 180watts for 2x20's on the trainer, but when I went out for a 1.5 hour cruise yesterday (that a rare thing in Toronto at this time of year), averaged 180watts for the whole ride - and being middle of winter, I took the ride pretty easy. By this I conclude that the polar reads significantly low (but at least consistent) on the trainer.

Curious if you notice any trend.

Joe

i have owned and installed on two different bikes (in chronological order): two polars (720i), one ergomo pro, and two power taps.

1). Since I owned the polar 720i heart rate monitory & cadence/RPM device, i decided for the money, it was the cheapest way to begin measuring power. i generally was happy but sometimes found in certain cassette/ring combinations, i might get slightly unusual readings. in the big scheme of things, I could live with this because i am a recreational rider. i found that the installation of the units were pretty straightforward, and polar now has a great installation video on their website. There are some oddities about the unit such as needing to know the weight & length of the chain, but once you set the unit up, you forget about this sorta thing. i used them on both bikes for about 2 years.

2). after deciding i wanted to increase my investment in power equipment,. i thought there might be something better than the polars. plus i wanted to remove the polar power-reading device on my rear chainstay. I paid about $1,600 for the ergomo on the STRONG recommendation of my local bike shop. they told me that EVERYONE was raving about the ergomo and it was better to go that route than a power tap. after a few weeks of using the ergomo, my initial impression was very positive. i liked the huge display and its flexible way of changing what is displayed on the screen (very customizable). i also liked the altimeter and the % gradient reading it gave me. i was curious that the power measurements were very close to my old polar unit on the same bike. i began to believe that the ergomo generally confirmed that the polar was reading power reasonably accurately. i rode this bike for about 9 months with the ergomo. i strapped the polar HRM to my tandem so I can track my rides on that bike. i don't have the power unit connected (not compatible with a tandem).

3). Just to get some variability, i then put a powertap on my other bike. i paid about $900 on Ebay. i found it measured about the same power as the polar did. i thought the polar had a far more flexible display. i disliked not being able to change rear wheels (the rear hub becomes IS the power reading unit), but i don't change rear wheels too often so it was not a big deal. I liked the ergomo display much better than the power tap display. i was not dissatisfied with the power tap, though. it seemed very consistent. i rode this bike for about 6 months.

4). after not riding my Ergomo bike for approx. 6 months, i picked it back up again. unfortunately the ergomo unit immediatly began behaving strangely (wild fluctuations of power, blank display, etc). resetting the K factor did no good, resetting the unit did no good. so i bought another powertap on Ebay (about $650) and installed it on that bike. I took the ergomo back to my local bike shop for repair. They found the ergomo bottom bracket sensors were defective and they had to ship the unit back to Germany since the US distributor stopped working with Ergomo. that was approx. 2 months ago and i have not received a new unit yet. Needless to say, it is not good to pay $1,600 for something and have it break down and require repair in a foreign country with no end in sight.

5). a problem i have with one of my powertap units is the computer will not zero the watts (this is a way of periodically resetting the torque and wattage settings). the problem started when i accidentally put one computer on the other bike for a trainer ride. i noticed my wattage seemed about 10 - 15 watts too once I moved it back to my old bike. when i attempted to zero the torque/watts, i would go no lower than 11 watts. i haven't tried to figure this one out yet, but i know that i am running 11 watts to high on my 2nd bike. i am sure there is a simple fix, but i have not found it yet.

bottom line: i would NOT recommend the ergomo due to aforementioned problem, i would recommend the polar (it is a decent unit for the money), and i would recommend power tap (it works & is consistent). I suppose if I get my ergomo back (eventually) and it works flawlessly for months, i may change my mind. once it does come back from Germany, i DO plan to ride with both a powertap & ergomo on the same bike to compare how they read.

by the way, i have used all three power meters on & off a trainer, and found no anomolies. All three worked as well on a trainer as on the road. my two bikes are: Specialized Roubaix Pro (carbon) and a Cannondale CADD 7 (aluminum)

the beauty of the polar is that for about $400 - $500, you can get into measuring power. i think the next step up if you can afford it ($600 - $1,000 depending on new/used & wired/wireless) it is powertap. Of course, if you want to go all out, spend $2,500 on an SRM unit.

i would encourage you to talk to many cyclists before making your choice. i hope this helps.

At lower (endurance level) powers it seems OK, then once power goes up above a certain level (~250W say ), the readings become highly erratic and the effect seems to be making the overall average too high as well.

Like for TT type efforts on a turbo, I see power swinging up and down 50-60W every few seconds or so. I'd have thought on a turbo the power readings would be much more stable.

And the averages bear no resemblance to what reading we see when riding on the road. I don't mean the usual difference in power indoor vs outdoor, I mean much more than that. e.g. in one case I set TT (L4) intervals for a rider at 260-280W, but on the trainer they're riding them at 330+ W average according the RPE and the polar.

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I bought my PT Pro from Performance back in August during a double points weekend. It is a 2008 model with the new hub body and coded HR, cost was $999. Double points yielded a 20% credit, so I was still a grand out of pocket, but I got $200 of free stuff. Close enough to 800 bucks for me.

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Will they?...IMHO, I think they'll bungle around and not really get serious about their unit until they realize that they're actually in the "sports performance monitoring" business, and NOT the "HR monitor" business.

Oh yeah...and also realize that memory is cheap


That said...I'm not saying that their current products are completely useless...far from it in fact, and in many ways they represent the best "bang for the buck" in power monitoring.

I guess, perhaps like the OP, I see the enormous potential of the technique to be a "world beater" and expect better things from a company such as Polar than what they've shown so far.

Tom - any hints on the trainer problem? My guys have tried all sorts of dampening but it's not really working.

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Well, first...make sure the spacing from the module to the chain is correct (never more than 25-30mm).

Second, it's my speculation that some of the problem is actually NOT ENOUGH random vibration on a trainer to excite the chain at it's natural frequency at a sufficient amplitude. Either the trainer setup is "too smooth" or has some odd harmonic that influences it. So, in short, I'm not convinced that damping things is the right approach.

I don't know...any chance of strapping some sort of "white noise generator" on the bike or the trainer?