2008 Ftp? - Page 5

I use #6. No tapering yadda yadda (except when I get sick!). It's the 2nd most accurate method and definitely practical indoors where i spend half the year.

20MP x 95% regardless of pre-exhaustion, doesn't even make the SDS list.

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rmur

Hi

Yes, I had a look at the list. Is it not odd that the method put forward in the Allen & Coggan book as "the best way to begin" is not even on the list! Struggling to understand that a bit

Think on balance I'll stick to the method in the book and just keep it consistent and test 3-4 times per year. Looks as though the list might be comparing apples and pears a bit.

Thanks for everyone's help.

PBUK

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hi there.
The main thing for your own sanity is to keep it consistent for sure. Considering even *true* PM accuracy and the like, IMHO it's silly to ever try and pin down FTP to the nearest watt or two. I always round to the nearest 5W - up or down dependng on how brave I am that day ;0)

As I've been using power since 2002, my chosen method has also been validated from time to time using other methods. For instance, the gold 40k TT or the occasional very hard 1-hr NP road effort etc. So I'm very comfortable using #6.

Also since I have a ton of data, FWIW I can also say that my own FTP/20MP ratio (flat-out 20) is 0.96 ... but even given that --- I'm loathe to hang my hat on a single 20MP effort.

I think AC once said "a lot can happen between 20-minutes and an hour"

I believe the major apples-oranges discrepancy would be between PT/SRM users, maybe Polar and Ergomo, vs. the "trainer curve crew".

all the best

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rmur

The book was a collaboration, there's a lot of places where Hunter and Coggan don't necessarily see eye to eye. Based on Andy's comments here and elsewhere the 20 minute * 0.95 protocol(and don't skip the pre fatigue steps before the actual test) represent a method Hunter likes. FWIW my FTP has historically come closer to 0.98 * 20 minute MMP based on actual time trials, Monod tests and other methods on that list. That 3% difference in estimates doesn't sound like much but it's the difference between an FTP of ~295 watts and ~305 watts based on 310 for 20 minutes. Yeah 10 watts isn't going to make or break my training but it starts to matter as important time trials approach and I want to plan my pacing.

I'm with rmur, tracking long interval power is just part of training so that method doesn't require any special days set aside to test.

-Dave

I'm a big fan of the 2 hrs @ 95% of FTP method.

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Touche!

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Re-posting from the old sticky FTP thread..

Some impressive numbers here. I'm the resident skinny guy weakling. This will be my first season racing, I hope, pending how my clavicle heals. I didn't get the PowerTap until after I was healed up enough to ride again. So my power is probably down a little.. we shall see how quickly it comes back.

Age: 32
FTP: 240
Weight: 66.2kg (146 lbs)
= 3.62

it's all about progress

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rmur

After observing this test, I had to put it up because the numbers stunning.

KP..................265W........48.5kg...... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg......5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster...........344W......71kg.....4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.8W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
strader...............262W.......68kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

That is excellent for a female, for sure. Which nation will she represent at the Olympics?

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster............344W......71kg.......4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
strader...............262W.......68kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

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rmur

Thats some serious power people are laying down. Hey Rick I'm waiting for you to post those SST silver bullet workouts to the time trialling forum. When's it coming dude?

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster............344W......71kg.......4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

Did my first ever cat 5 road race on Sunday (I'm a mountain biker/cyclocrosser). It was on a 11 mile hilly course, three laps. On the beginning of the last lap I got away on a three person brake. Problem was the other two guys were on the same team and didn't seem to want to work with me. They wore themselves out trying to drop me and fell back into the peloton. I was able to hold the brake solo for over twenty minutes, and caught the open masters 50+ group who started ahead of us. At that point I was out of sight of the pack 5 peloton, but made a really dumb move: I sped by the 50+ group instead of hanging on the back for a few minutes to rest. A few minutes later I started to develop a nasty leg cramp and had to ramp down to make sure I would be able to finish the race. I'm not yet comfortable drinking from my water bottle while riding in the pack, which I think is why I developed the leg cramp - just didn't drink enough. The pack caught me on the last major climb and I ended up finishing in the middle of a downhill bunch sprint.
The good news is I posted some PB power numbers: 285 watts normalized over the last 1 hour, 20 minute average of 298 watts, and 10 minutes at 306 watts. Didn't win but I got the best workout of any cat 5.

No, you didn't because drafting off of riders from a separate race is usually considered cheating and would subject you to disqualification.

nice work! one thing though... hanging in with the other group might have got you disqualified, you are only allowed to intermigle with people in your race... so you have to watch that... but i guess what the Commisaire doesn't see doesn't hurt'em or you for that matter... but technically you did what you are supposed to do i.e. go right around them.