Lactic acid not the cause of muscle fatigue? - Page 3

i know for a fact that you don't know what you think you know...

part of wisdom is having a lot of knowledge.. but just as important, or some would say even more a important is knowing what you don't know.. a little knowlege is a dangerous thing and all that...

ps.. i have a degree in chemistry and know the precise the meaning of denatured.

not only... there is potential to do biochemical damage to muscles and nerves... when i say denatured protein... when proteins are exposed to heat and/or certain chemicals they can be changed in such a way as they cannot return to the original state... think boiled egg... think of the chemical that a mortitian would use. there is the risk of mechanical damage to muscles but there is also the risk to damage muscles chemically as well.

Then I'm doubly shocked that you would suggest that those muscle proteins would denature with that level of use. Not as if any local acidosis is going to match what you can get in a test tube on a laboratory bench.

Look at those dopers on pro circuits, how many of them have you seen suddenly melted on their bikes due to denatured muscle protein? Look at medical pain management? The aim in just about every case is to allow the patient to function close to normal in light of the pain they are suffering. So no, pain isn't everything.

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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

You have a major disconnect b/n your lab work and what really happens in a viable biological system.

Muscles in your legs aren't boiling eggs sitting in a 100°C water bath! As for what the mortician use, well, I don't exactly know. But I do know that our hearts don't usually pump formalin or gluteraldehyde in our arteries and veins.

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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

ok, now you are just being silly now..

who said acidosis? who said riders will be melting down? i'm talking about incremental damage to muscle fibres and nerves that over time could be dangerous or in the long term counter productive.

when you dope.. whose is to say that the conditions of the muscles are not such that it is chemically safe for muscles to function at that higher level... we know for a fact that whatever feedback loop (pain/fatigue) that is in place (that i'm assuming is protective) doesn't cause doper to be limited at that higher level. so if the pain is a protective mechanism whatever the body would be protecting itself from would not be present because the pain/fatigue is not present when you dope and ride at a higher level. that's kinda the point isn't it? if you doped and it hurt just as much or more but you could go harder the dope wouldn't be of much use would it?

anyway, you are obviously not even reading my posts so i think i'll stop... it's ironic that you spoke of religious like belief and yet are completely an utterly unable to consider an alternate hypothosis.

???

Hey Piotr, you'll have to ride up the street that has that house on it one day. I've gone up in a car and it feels like you are going to flip backwards.

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Training Log

You keeping using words like "could" and "may". Fact of the matter is, we all age, and that's a natural biological phenomenon. These exercise induced stresses on muscles at the cellular level are trivial in the scheme of things, especially considering the natural metabolism and other repair processes there are within our bodies. The worst thing that can happen to these skeletal muscle cells is that the mysosin and actin system will just stop functioning for a while and the person will take a rest. Does it leave permanent damage to the cells? Nothing more than the normal background aging process.

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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

and you keep on presenting your opinions, speculations and assumptions as fact... thay's really annoying... at least i put some qualification to my words an separate fact from opinion, speculation etc.. you seem incapable of differentiating between your opinion and fact.. e.g. almost everything in that last post is just your opinion.. do you not undrestand that? doesn't seem like you do.

Lets just say that opinion is based on career experience and knowledge. Something a bit more directly related than just chemistry.

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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

yeah, something like we should just trust in the opinion... and work actually of Nobel Laureate Myerhoff on his old lactic acid - muscle fatigue theory... that proved in the end to be complete and utter bull sh!t.. something like that eh?

i could not give a rats ass about anyone's qualification.. bottom line, if your reasoning is supect and if you can't reasonably explain or demonstrate why your opinions are correct then you are just talking out of your ass... sorry, i'm just not into this whole faith thing...

Sure, but you do care about your own and have to specially PS it.

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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

wtf... man... are you are as dumb as a stump?

i'm stating a FACT.. the definition of denatured.. something that anyone with a chem degree should know... i'll say it again... it's a FACT... i wasn't giving you my opinion as a chemist <shaking my head> i'm actually stating a fact as fact... being a chemist actually qualifies me to know that definition.

this is in contrast with you... that think you can just higely, wigely state you opinion as fact and just say trust me i'm an expert without... a) qualifying it as your opinion or b) giving anything like proof or c) giving any kind of compelling arguement as to why competing hypotheses are less valid or c) then have the odasity to tell someone who does qualify there words... well you are qualifing your words therefore your words are some how less valid... wha??

look, just because you make a proclamation no, matter how qualified you are, if you don't come with a proper arguement or proof, you are, as i said, just talking out of your ass.

you come with nothing and you expect us to just follow along... you have to come with something compelling... i don't care who you are.

to the OP... i'm really sorry for this tangent...