VO2max test ramp rate

I figured I wouldn't dredge up an old thread that didn't answer my question anyway, so here we go: I recently did a VO2max test in an exercise physiology lab that used a ramp rate of 25w/2min. Any idea why they'd use that protocol? I can't believe I wouldn't have failed at a higher wattage if they'd used 25w/1 minute.

Also, if anyone knows of a good reference for interpreting the results (all aspects) of the VO2 max test, I'd be indebted for a reference.

Thanks!

Jeff

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'07 S-Works Tarmac SL, Polar CS600+Power
2008 Cervelo P3C, Zipp 900c+808

'07 Specialized Epic Marathon w/Crossmax SLRs
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They did what they did. Just do it the same when re-testing.

25w/1 minute ramps too fast, you would be doing a sprint without eliciting VO2 Max responses.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&cd=42

Take a read of this study WRT ramp rates. 1min ramp will give you much higher power numbers than 3min ramp rate. Suppose 2min ramp will give you something in between. As mentioned, consistency of testing is the key to determine improvement. Further, appears Vo2max intervals (after the first interval) need not be as long (~1.5min) as currently thought (4-5min).

So if 25w/1 min is too fast for VO2 max tests, wouldn't it also be too fast for the MAP test protocol that is often quoted around here? I could swear that 25w/1m is the most often suggested ramp rate, but it sounds like not using something like 25w/2m would overestimate one's MAP, would it not?

Thanks for that link, read through it, interesting stuff. Maybe I missed it, but it seems they didn't get too specific about the optimal interval length for training VO2 max. It sounds like 90 seconds is the minimum to elicit the response in that specific system, so does that mean that 90 seconds is optimal (or most efficient, in this case)? Or is 2 minutes better?

The reason I ask is that the hill that I've been using in my neighborhood takes about 3.5 minutes, and if I'm wasting my time by starting at the bottom, it'd be great to know sooner than later...

Thanks for the responses!

-Jeff

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'07 S-Works Tarmac SL, Polar CS600+Power
2008 Cervelo P3C, Zipp 900c+808

'07 Specialized Epic Marathon w/Crossmax SLRs
CycleOps Pro 300PT Indoor Cycle Trainer (my winter ride)

A MAP test is not a VO2 Max test but you do elicit a state of VO2 Max during a MAP test.

The ramp rate used for testing MAP is part of the definition of MAP, i.e. the maximal 1-minute average power during a ramp test to exhaustion at a ramp rate of 15, 20 or 25W/min (or 5W per 20, 15 or 12 seconds) depending on category of rider being tested.

Yes the different rates will give slightly different result but that's not really a problem since:
- the purpose of the test is to set a benchmark for MAP & to set power based training levels
- you use the same test protocol each time
- the training levels set from such a test are broad enough and in fact overlap to some degree, such that relatively minor differences in MAP don't effect training presciption all that much

If you want to test VO2 Max, then do a VO2 Max test.

Likewise, if you want to test TT power, do a TT.

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Thanks Alex, that helps.

-Jeff

__________________

'07 S-Works Tarmac SL, Polar CS600+Power
2008 Cervelo P3C, Zipp 900c+808

'07 Specialized Epic Marathon w/Crossmax SLRs
CycleOps Pro 300PT Indoor Cycle Trainer (my winter ride)

How do you deduce that? What do you mean by "after the first interval"?

I presume you read the article, but the time references I made are particular to my training rx - YMMV. IOW, a Vo2max interval of 60% of Tmax is ~1.5mins for me. Further, as the article mentioned "the primary interval done at Pmax for 60% of Tmax may not end in the attainment of Vo2max, subsequent intervals would most likely reach Vo2max." This has been my experience, so my first interval is always 30s longer than subsequent intervals...Hope this helps you...

Reaching VO2 Max is the first step, but spending enough time up there to train VO2 Max is another question.

FWIW, I wouldn't structure training intervals for the minimum time it takes to elicit the physiological response you're targeting. IOW, even if you can reach VO2 Max in 90 seconds in your later efforts I would still target 3 or more minutes so that you actually get some training time at that intensity.

The commonly prescribed 3 to 5 minute L5 intervals assume 2.5 minutes to elicit the VO2 Max response, sounds like the response might come a bit quicker in later efforts which is cool but you'd still want to hold that effort for a bit.

-Dave

There are varying camps on this aspect of which is most effective - duration at Vo2max or frequency of attaining Vo2max. I understand the camp you're in; I'm in the other camp. My lab test later this month will more than likely demonstrate that my training rx is effective for me...YMMV

Fair enough.

1.5min for Vo2max?

I do some 'fun' efforts like that on the ergo at the end of a couple of weekly workouts this time of year. Main threshold/tempo work is done and I'm under no pressure to hit any targets.

Typically I'll do 3-5 reps on the ergo set @500W. 1:30 starting off and build that to 2:00 over a few w/o. Rest interval 3-3.5min (5-min cycle time) around 250W.

I do NOT feel like I'm even close to Vo2max during these intervals - not breathing that hard at the end - more of a longish spinup to hit some unused fibers than anything else.

I'm too much of a wimp to do any REAL Vo2max work!!

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rmur

^^
All you need is some ibuprofen, Rick .

I gave that up in 2007 ...when it started to become a bit of a crutch for me.
Now I only take one if my sometimes dodgy left hip is paining.

Don't ask me to give up coffee though !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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rmur

i'm with you here...

the thing with training VO2max that most people over complicate it.. VO2max training is really about eliciting the most minutes of exercise induced heavy breathing. the time after the interval heavy breathing, in oxygen debt counts in this as well.. so unlike other zones, it's not really about riding at power x for time x it's about.. how is it best from me to maximize my minutes of heavy breathing and that is going to be an individual thing physiologically as well as a individual thing preference wise as well...