Getting to 300 watts? - Page 2

It's killing me but..........

No way, I would spend that cool 900k long before my last days

Um, I know what you are saying here, I do really. The thing with high placings of course is that sure you can wheelsuck for 99% of a crit but in a hilly road race or TT, you are going to have the physical prowess and good to get the job done. Looking at a 4+/wkg FT I'd think my chances would be favorable in plenty of cat 3/4 events, assuming I was sensible about tactics and strategy.

Easy for you to say with a championship and a bunch of race wins under your belt !!!!!

Goals are good. I would like to reach or come close to attaining, my potential in this sport. I'm willing to work super hard to do it at that.

In fairness to the old dude, I mean he did some great stuff and hey, he was like 65+. I can see where he might wanna fade into obscurity a bit. I'm nowhere near that age :-)

For some people they just wanna climb the mountain you know? Set a super high goal and achieve it, then maybe do something else. That seems equally valid to sticking with a sport for years and year. Different motivations for people.

No argument there Dave. It is one hella thread.

Thing is as I have reread it (and gotten more advice from you guys) is why was the older guy doing so much vo2max work so soon? And even L6 stuff too?

Everything I read from you fast guys tells me that L4/SST is the ticket to boosting FT. Meanwhile L5 is for boosting vo2max, usually when FT stalls, and also some for specific races. While L6 work is almost definitely solely for racing benefit. Yet he sure did a lot of this type of riding (L5/L6) at the expense of other training like SST I think. THe result speaks for itself but I wonder if it could have been more optimal/ideal and also, with less pain.

FInally it came across as though his volume was not very high at all. More power to him for reaching his goal on a lower training volume but my volume is already higher and I seem to get fitter as I train more.

His coach comes across as a super sharp dude and explained stuff with great detail, not just 'cause I said so' that some people use. Only thing that I didn't get about his training MO was the dislike for solid L3 work. For me it is a big staple and a low-pain/high reward part of training & CTL building.

Actually I posted that in response to Greg who was looking for that link.

But since you bring it up, Tyson was doing a lot of L5 and L6 work and but RDO time and again had to get him back on track with L4 work and even had to keep reminding him to back off from the 100-105% L4 work to the more sustainable 91% variety. The early to mid pages of that thread are full of posts trying to get Tyson to back off and do higher volumes of solid SST/Threshold work and advised him to back off from the high end stuff he wanted to do.

Lydiard really did have it right, our bread and butter is sustainable power and that's best built through steady work that's sufficiently difficult to encourage adaptations but sufficiently easy that we can do a lot of it during a session and in subsequent sessions. Or in his words: "train don't strain"

The L5/L6 work can be great to change things up, to break through plateau's and to provide important icing on the cake for mass start racing but without a solid base of sustainable power that high end work doesn't mean much.

-Dave

Sure it is. It's just tragic when someone spends so much time longing for the peak that it sours them to the beautiful scenery all around them in the meadow.

Well put. Right now my goal (before my ultimate goal of being in a race) is to be able to breathe easier and to lower my LTHR. Not exactly sure how severe of a goal that is, but I think power is secondary for now. Unless you guys think otherwise .

-Greg

Ok. Ok. Gotcha. Sorry if that caused confusion.

I see your point and I have made that a big part of my training. Meaning none of the 'no-pain no gain', beat your head against wall refrain, but instead some smarts mean a little pain for much more gain

You guys answered the L5 question for me so I've shelved those for the foreseeable future. If/when FT plateaus or stalls along with my 5 & 60 minute power getting closer, then I'll think about L5 work.




Tee-he. A matter of perspective I figure. If you obsess about the goal sure, then a bit of a waste. But you can still be focused, enjoy the scenery, and reach your goal.Could be then you move on to something different with new goals or maybe you stick with the same activity.

I'm no mountaineer but I climbed Rainier and Shuskan(with a guided group) because I wanted to experience being on beautiful mountains. I've got little interest in climbing but I always look back fondly on those trips :-)

I've ridden over Loveland Pass at nearly 12k, but never made it to the peak....

Good times..... good times.

Sweet :-)

There's some hella good boarding in the ski area (darn cold and windy though) and climbing on nearby Torrey's & Gray's Peaks.

There is an optimal cadence but it will vary for each rider, where they are riding, what event they are doing and being able to ride a set cadence for a certain duration does not mean it will prepare you for actual rides or races.

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Hamish Ferguson: Cycling Coach
http://hamishferguson.blogspot.com/

fergie, do you think there's anything to the old notion that higher-cadence (ie, super-optimal) training is better for developing the leg capillaries and central cardio-vascular system? Didn't this used to be standard advice for those new to the sport?

I see what you mean. I was just thinking that practicing high cadence (not any specific numbers or durations, but just above 95+) would be a good thing to do.

Back in the day it was get in 2000-3000 miles preferably on a fixed 66" gear to lose the winter coat and build up a capillary base. Any anaerobic work would blow these capillaries to pieces and ruin all the work.

Then it was a mix of SE (strength endurance work at 35-65rpm) and O2 (120rpm+) to develop a mix of strength (riding at 200-400watts???) and high cadence to build the VO2max (even though again power is lower).

I work on a "more powerful is more powerful" principle. The higher or the lower you run your cadence the lower your power goes. My suggestion would be to find the cadence where you generate the most power and train that.

Within reason. You may find 60rpm works best for you into a headwind but may leave you exposed to sudden accelerations in a road race or 95rpm in a track pursuit but find it takes you 2 laps to get over the big gear when your opponent was up to speed in half a lap.

__________________
Hamish Ferguson: Cycling Coach
http://hamishferguson.blogspot.com/

also will vary depending on fitness, fatigue level, gradient, environmental conditions, gearing available, prior training, riding experience, type of bike, crank length, position, yadda yadda, such that it's a pointless exercise worrying about it.

Ride to an effort level and pick a gear that feel good.

Sometimes pick a gear that doesn't feel good simply to get used to unusual circumstances or for a change up for something different, but it's not overly necessary for anything other than short durations. It's effort level (power) that matters.

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Custom Training Plans -- cyclecoach.com -- My Blog -- Power Meter Hire in Australia

Thanks for straightening me out once again guys.

Is it good for me to mix in SE with O2 within the same week? or should I separate them by months.

p.s. Alex, I'm almost there with my questionaire.

-Greg

I suspect Alex's plans (or Fergie's coaching) will have infinite separation between Strength Endurance work and any other workout...

"Strength endurance" training: a physiologist's view

-Dave