Alcohol is the culprit to Floyd's abnormal T/E Ratio - Page 4

Thankyou,nice to see someone with credentials on this forum for once!

Ive been saying this same thing all along. No amount of alcohol, or thyroid medication can possibly throw his T/E that far out of wack. My guess is hes been pissing hot the entire time, but under the UCI limit, until he bonked on stage 16 because of the dehydration, and it appeared, but it a much larger way, enough to qualify (officially at least) as doping.

@schwagger
There are a few people on this forum with credentials, myself included. I know of at least one other person here (ironically, lives very close to me) with the same degree and profession.

NY Times article today...

Whiskey Defense: Another Whopper
Selena Roberts. New York Times. (Late Edition (East Coast)). New York, N.Y.: Jul 30, 2006. pg. 8.1
Copyright New York Times Company Jul 30, 2006


OUT of good faith or gullibility, folks suspended their skepticism a week ago to witness a courageous athlete with a crumbling hip, to indulge in the delightful journey of a redhead from the Amish land of apple butter and horse buggies as he pedaled through Paris sipping Champagne at the finish.

A toast to Floyd Landis, everyone cheered, the unlikeliest winner in the history of the Tour de France.

Now Landis is asking people to stretch their inner oath of fairness -- or resolute naivete -- once more as he engages in the Whiskey Defense. Now he has slipped into the role of a bar-scene braggart as he talks one day of his naturally high testosterone levels, then blaming a Jack Daniel's binge -- or was it beer? -- for his A-sample spike a night before he charged through the Alps in Stage 17.

''It was very hot,'' he told reporters after the stage, ''or maybe it was the beer I had last night.'' How many brews? ''Just one,'' he said. ''I wasn't giving up just yet.''

Then Landis offered a revised version of his drinking tale last week. Maybe it was a few shots of Jack Daniel's to drown his deep funk after spiraling through Stage 16; he doesn't remember.

Whatever the bar tab, he revealed no cotton mouth, no bloodshot eyes, no hangover at all in Stage 17. Just pure-grain adrenaline for the greatest ride since Apollo 11.

Miracle or malarkey? (The man on the bike, not the man on the moon.)

It is expected that a B sample will be parsed this week by lab techies to determine if Landis's story stands up in a petri dish.

He may be cleared. And what a relief that would be to everyone who has watched Landis's modest Mennonite mother, with her gray hair swept in a bun, with a sweet smile on her face, doggedly defending her son to reporters outside her simple home.

A negative B sample is Landis's path to redemption. A positive B sample would provide another glimpse inside the athlete pathology of lying.

Artful dodging has become a natural reflex to doping allegations. Oh, the stories they tell. Thought it was flaxseed oil, Barry Bonds contended in Balco testimony reported by The San Francisco Chronicle. It was my vanishing twin from the womb, the cyclist Tyler Hamilton said after a blood-doping positive surfaced the month after he won a gold medal in Athens and dedicated it to his deceased golden retriever. It is a lab mystery to me, hinted the sprint great Justin Gatlin in a statement yesterday to disclose his recent positive test.

The doctors' notes that athletes have offered the World Anti-Doping Agency as excuses for failed tests seem written in fiction: it was Propecia, balding athletes say; it was a sleep medication, the narcoleptics contend; it was asthma meds, the wheezing swimmers cite.

''It's the Twinkie Defense: the sugar made me do it,'' said Dr. Steven Ungerleider, a research psychologist who wrote ''Faust's Gold: Inside the East German Doping Machine,'' when reached Friday. ''I think there is an athlete pathology here and an instinctive mentality of, gee, this isn't my fault.

''For a while, we bought into that. But with the WADA code out since 2001, with coaches warned, team officials warned and doctors warned, athletes have been slapped in the head with the knowledge that if anything goes into their bodies, they will be held accountable for it. In 1998 or 1999, with every story, there was room to wiggle. But not in this new age of drug-testing protocol.''

What is your tolerance for the new age of doping disclosures?

The Landis predicament isn't only about cycling's need for introspection. It's not the dirtiest sport, just the most visible in its drug flaws.

Landis, by his count, was tested eight times during the Tour and 16 other times this season. Imagine if, say, Major League Baseball -- many of whose players are urine-tested twice a season, and no one is needle-pricked for human growth hormone -- was as vigilant and as transparent in its anti-doping process as cycling.

No wonder loopholes down the line and up the middle still exist in the testing policies of pro sports. If marquee baseball stars beyond Balco were disclosed as drug cheats, could outrage threaten baseball's viability? Would corporate sponsors dare to dart for the doors once and for all? Would other sports be confronted with the same live-drug-free-or-die crossroads as cycling?

It is only a crisis when spectators stop watching. Some believe fans are so resilient in their unconditional love for their sports that there is no amount of scandal or absurd deniability or bumbling mismanagement to dissuade their loyalty.

But fan indifference can happen. Boxing stands as the cautionary tale of how fast a sport can sink into irrelevance with farce and corruption as its cement shoes. And the ratings dominance of ''American Idol'' over the American Winter Olympians in Turin, Italy, is a reminder of how the public is free to choose what reality TV to believe in.

Deception fatigue has its limits. If Landis's Whiskey Defense fails, if his B sample turns into another dark mark against athlete credibility, the cyclist from the piety and purity of Pennsylvania Dutch Country will be labeled a fraud.

At some point, fan endurance for athletes' tall tales will expire. Only then, with good faith and gullibility exhausted, will the truth be a priority.

Landis in his interviews has not claimed the alcohol had anything to do with the results, in fact he backed away from that specifically.
He is getting slammed for other's mistakes.
I thought the NYTimes piece was crap.
Yes, athletes have told tall tales along the way, I don think FLoyd has.

They are being tough on Landis, thats real easy.
Why doesnt Selena Roberts try and write an expose of the Mets or the Yankees-and see what Geirge Steinbrenner has to say to her. Or some of his goons.
You mess with organized sports in the US and you could easily have seriously bad stuff happen to you, why do you think the press here is so silent?? Have you ever contemplated that betting and organized crime might have a huge influence here on sports and reportage?

Cycling is easy to hit along with cross country skiing because there's no mob influence or money. It sells newspapers on France to keep their attention away from the dismal state of their own civic decline.

This is the same old refrain - "look at other sports, they're all doping too".

What happens in other sports is immaterial.
If they want to have cheating, then that's their business.

As regards cycling, the sport needs to get it house in order and that means removing those riders who have been caught doping, regardless of their nationality.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Patch, thanks for that expert opinion.
It has clarified this issue beyond doubt.

The alcohol issue is really bizzare : Landis claims to have been drinking alcohol during the Tour de France.
No rider would jeporadise this performance by drinking.

On the basis that he was shattered at Stage 16 - to be consuming alcohol is reckless.
Alcohol dehydrates ones system - to be consuming alcohol that soon after having "bonked" on stage 16 is thoroughly reckless and is preventing ones system from recovering (by consuming alcohol)
Especially given the fact that Stage 17/18 were going to be also demanding on a riders system.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

This is what puzzles me too, but if you read after the mighty Lance, he mentions on more than one occasion having a beer or glass of champagne with dinner during his tours.

This is complete nonsense. Ask any team who wins a stage...there's always beer and or wine. Geez.

As for Dr. Patch Adams, in your work as an internist, how often do you order T/E ratios, and for what patients or conditions? And what are the studies on thyroid replacement or cortisone injections on these tests, just curious.

__________________
Driven by whaz inside

I suggest you do some research on Le Tour as you will obviously be surprised at how often alcohol is consumed during the race.

It was evident from the footage of stage 16 that Landis's system was shot completely.
He was sweating profusely, he could barely turn the pedals.
At the finish line, he took his helmet off and sheets of sweat cascaded down his body.

For Landis to be drinking after having experienced what he did on 16, would be reckless in the extreme.

Having a glass of win at dinner is fine - but to consume alcohol when you're a heap like Landis was, is reckless and implausible.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

As to whether it is reckless, so be it.
Implausible? He did it at a public bar sitting outside so i think he is not reaching. WHo cares anyway? It is irrelevant to the tests and even his doctors are saying so.
The press made a huge thing about his talking about beer at the time so I dont think he is fabricating.

__________________
Driven by whaz inside

Maybe although I suspect you exaggerate to the extreme. A team celebrating a bonk a the subsequent loss of the yellow jersey must be a first however...
Alcohol causes dehydration. Do you seriously think that Landis would drink alcohol after the dehydration he suffered on Stg 16? Think people...

Alcohol doesn't aid recovery.
Alcohol dehyrdates ones system.

Look at the footage of stage 16 - to be consuming alcohol after being in that state, is implausible. Landis was severely dehyrdated and would have felt the effects of same for quite some time afterwards.
Consuming alcohol just doesn't make any sense - given those facts.

I suggest that you ought to go away and do some research.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

What exactly does any of this have to do with what I posted? You claimed that no rider would jeopardize this performance by drinking and the fact is that Tour riders often drink alcohol, during the race. You were wrong, instead of just admitting it you did what you always do, use some argument that has nothing to do with what I said. I suggest you grow up and learn to admit when you are wrong.

The ironic thing about your posts is that after the first time trial you dismissed at Eddy Mazzoleni's performance as dodgy in only finishing some 3 minutes behind Landis... you sited possible drug use.... however when Landis came close to death on the day pervious rides solo for 130km as wins a stage by 7 minutes over seasoned mountain climbers then he tests positive for testosterone you claim its a sham, a fraud, it was a the beer, or he produces high amounts naturally..... perhaps you should apply the same rules to Landis ? Do you realise you ridiculous you are sounding ?