More Motorola/Postal members admit doping - Page 2

tcklyde · #16 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobke

The other rider stated he would not come out and reveal who he is to preserve his job in cycling.
Hamilton? no
Livingston? no
Vaughters? set the record on Ventoux that year
Jean Cyrin Robin?
was on 99 team
I think it would be Vaughters.

Nothing new here.
How nice of Frankie and his wife to hang Lance out to dry in hours and hours of depositions--and he was the one doping. Interesting I think Frankie denied under oath ever having doped himself, cant recall for sure.

So if you had doped as a professional rider for years, why would you go out of your way to testify about a teammate who you really dont know if he doped or not? WHy would you get caught up in a cops and robbers insanity that Frankie did? What a desperate guy and a tool.
I feel bad for him. He doped just to have a job.
But now his wife is still out in the press blaming Lance for Frankie doping, literally. Nice touch Mrs Andreu.

Read velonews.

Robin wasn't on the 1999 Tour Team, he ws on La Française des Jeux.

wolfix · #17 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcklyde

Robin wasn't on the 1999 Tour Team, he ws on La Française des Jeux.

Anyone that is shocked to hear or disgusted with a rider because he doped has to ask himself why he is a fan. 1st of all, Euro procycling has had dope as a main ingrediant before any of us was even born. Everyone claims they want a clean Tour de France. That is silly. How would anyone know they want a clean Tour de France when there never has been one. What attracted you to the sport was watching doped riders push themselves to the edge year after year.
The doping practices of the Tour de France riders is well documented, more is known about that then the equipment champions ride on.

JohnO · #18 09-12.-2006

Personally, I find Frankie to be a bit of a hypocrite. He comes 'clean', only when he can't make money off of cycling any more, and only when he can make money on a doping book, which is sure to follow. Much as one would like to think that he's doing it for the 'good of the sport', he appears to be doing it for largely financial reasons, and possibly a bit of crushed ego as well. If it were for the good of the sport, he'd have spoken up a long time ago.

The real shame is that the true villans in this mess are not the riders, it is the organizations on top that have left enough loopholes to allow juicing, looked the other way, paid lip service and precious little else to the doping issue. As long as the money kept rolling in, anything goes. They held out a multimillion dollar/euro payday in front of a lot of hard working people if only you bend the rules a bit, well what do you think would happen?

And those organizations still protect themselves. They have all of you demonizing the riders as evil people. How many of you would turn down retiring at age 30 with twenty mil in the bank, all for the sake of an ideal that no one else holds to? You want to be outraged - be outraged at the organizations who created these conditions, profited from them, all while letting the riders take the health risks and the blame. The UCI and WADA - they're getting off easy. And let's not forget the footballers - their involvment with Fuentes has been kept more secret than nuclear launch codes. Wouldn't do to disturb the World Cup.

It's all part of the show, folks. We make the money, and the riders take all of the risks, and catch all of the blame from the 'outraged' fans. Works out very nicely, don't you think?

helmutRoole2 · #19 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnO

Personally, I find Frankie to be a bit of a hypocrite. He comes 'clean', only when he can't make money off of cycling any more, and only when he can make money on a doping book, which is sure to follow. Much as one would like to think that he's doing it for the 'good of the sport', he appears to be doing it for largely financial reasons, and possibly a bit of crushed ego as well. If it were for the good of the sport, he'd have spoken up a long time ago.

The real shame is that the true villans in this mess are not the riders, it is the organizations on top that have left enough loopholes to allow juicing, looked the other way, paid lip service and precious little else to the doping issue. As long as the money kept rolling in, anything goes. They held out a multimillion dollar/euro payday in front of a lot of hard working people if only you bend the rules a bit, well what do you think would happen?

And those organizations still protect themselves. They have all of you demonizing the riders as evil people. How many of you would turn down retiring at age 30 with twenty mil in the bank, all for the sake of an ideal that no one else holds to? You want to be outraged - be outraged at the organizations who created these conditions, profited from them, all while letting the riders take the health risks and the blame. The UCI and WADA - they're getting off easy. And let's not forget the footballers - their involvment with Fuentes has been kept more secret than nuclear launch codes. Wouldn't do to disturb the World Cup.

It's all part of the show, folks. We make the money, and the riders take all of the risks, and catch all of the blame from the 'outraged' fans. Works out very nicely, don't you think?

Best post I've seen on this topic.

Meek One · #20 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by wineandkeyz

WTF?!? Now Andreu is backpedaling? (No pun intended.) Or was he misquoted in the NYT? (No surprise if he was...)

The Times claimed that Andreu admitted to taking EPO in prep for the 1999 Tour. But in Andreu's statement released today (http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10853.0.html), he says:

EPO was banned before 1999, right?

Lance probably sent some goons over to his house to help him with his memory...

whiteboytrash · #21 09-12.-2006

Smoking gun catches up with Lance...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/em_swift/09/12/armstrong/

tcklyde · #22 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteboytrash

Smoking gun catches up with Lance...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/em_swift/09/12/armstrong/

Nice. Quote of the day: "A racer who gets caught by doping control is dumb as a mule," -- Willy Voet.

meehs · #23 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

<snip>...that means every cycling fan had to endure seven years of crappy Tour de France routs.<snip>

Okay! So you really think that for the ten or so years (let's just use that number but it was probably dirty long before that) prior to Armstrong's winning that the Tour de France was a clean race, won by riders that were pure as the driven snow? Indurain? Ullrich? Riis? Pantani? C'mon!

Why is that Armstrong's drug induced wins are "bogus" and that by him "we were all duped" but it's somehow okay that the race was won by dopers for years and years before anyone even knew who Lance Armstrong was?

helmutRoole2 · #24 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehs

Okay! So you really think that for the ten or so years (let's just use that number but it was probably dirty long before that) prior to Armstrong's winning that the Tour de France was a clean race, won by riders that were pure as the driven snow? Indurain? Ullrich? Riis? Pantani? C'mon!

Why is that Armstrong's drug induced wins are "bogus" and that by him "we were all duped" but it's somehow okay that the race was won by dopers for years and years before anyone even knew who Lance Armstrong was?

Because he went over the top with it. Sure, others have doped, plenty have. But seven Tours? That's greedy.

I get your point, though.

Tous dope.

meehs · #25 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

Because he went over the top with it. Sure, others have doped, plenty have. But seven Tours? That's greedy.

I get your point, though.

Tous dope.

I don't want to start a big long doping debate. And I certainly am not picking on you personally Helmut, I've heard the same type of "Armstrong duped us all" sentiment from a lot of folks on this forum. But I just want to point out that if Indurain or Pantani or any of the others could have won even just one more Tour de France (and I contend using whatever means possible), they would have been all over it like... well... choose your analogy.

Powerful Pete · #26 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehs

I don't want to start a big long doping debate. And I certainly am not picking on you personally Helmut, I've heard the same type of "Armstrong duped us all" sentiment from a lot of folks on this forum. But I just want to point out that if Indurain or Pantani or any of the others could have won even just one more Tour de France (and I contend using whatever means possible), they would have been all over it like... well... choose your analogy.

Fair enough meehs, you have a point...

helmutRoole2 · #27 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerful Pete

Fair enough meehs, you have a point...

True that.

Rocket^ · #28 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnO

Personally, I find Frankie to be a bit of a hypocrite. He comes 'clean', only when he can't make money off of cycling any more, and only when he can make money on a doping book, which is sure to follow. Much as one would like to think that he's doing it for the 'good of the sport', he appears to be doing it for largely financial reasons, and possibly a bit of crushed ego as well. If it were for the good of the sport, he'd have spoken up a long time ago.

The real shame is that the true villans in this mess are not the riders, it is the organizations on top that have left enough loopholes to allow juicing, looked the other way, paid lip service and precious little else to the doping issue. As long as the money kept rolling in, anything goes. They held out a multimillion dollar/euro payday in front of a lot of hard working people if only you bend the rules a bit, well what do you think would happen?

And those organizations still protect themselves. They have all of you demonizing the riders as evil people. How many of you would turn down retiring at age 30 with twenty mil in the bank, all for the sake of an ideal that no one else holds to? You want to be outraged - be outraged at the organizations who created these conditions, profited from them, all while letting the riders take the health risks and the blame. The UCI and WADA - they're getting off easy. And let's not forget the footballers - their involvment with Fuentes has been kept more secret than nuclear launch codes. Wouldn't do to disturb the World Cup.

It's all part of the show, folks. We make the money, and the riders take all of the risks, and catch all of the blame from the 'outraged' fans. Works out very nicely, don't you think?

Excellent post!! Couldn't have said it better if I had tried.

tcklyde · #29 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnO

Personally, I find Frankie to be a bit of a hypocrite. He comes 'clean', only when he can't make money off of cycling any more, and only when he can make money on a doping book, which is sure to follow. Much as one would like to think that he's doing it for the 'good of the sport', he appears to be doing it for largely financial reasons, and possibly a bit of crushed ego as well. If it were for the good of the sport, he'd have spoken up a long time ago.

The real shame is that the true villans in this mess are not the riders, it is the organizations on top that have left enough loopholes to allow juicing, looked the other way, paid lip service and precious little else to the doping issue. As long as the money kept rolling in, anything goes. They held out a multimillion dollar/euro payday in front of a lot of hard working people if only you bend the rules a bit, well what do you think would happen?

And those organizations still protect themselves. They have all of you demonizing the riders as evil people. How many of you would turn down retiring at age 30 with twenty mil in the bank, all for the sake of an ideal that no one else holds to? You want to be outraged - be outraged at the organizations who created these conditions, profited from them, all while letting the riders take the health risks and the blame. The UCI and WADA - they're getting off easy. And let's not forget the footballers - their involvment with Fuentes has been kept more secret than nuclear launch codes. Wouldn't do to disturb the World Cup.

It's all part of the show, folks. We make the money, and the riders take all of the risks, and catch all of the blame from the 'outraged' fans. Works out very nicely, don't you think?

I guess I sort of agree with you ... but only sort of. In the end, it is the rider who makes the last moral choice: he is the one who agrees to poison himself in order to win. They could say no. They could speak out about doping in the peloton. They could refuse to honor the omerta. The riders have the power to influence the managers.

So I'm not going to cry for the riders. They dope. They have been complicit with the doping. Almost none of them has bothered to try to stop it. And the ones that have? Lance Armstrong tells them to shut up or chases them down when they get in breaks.

Listen, is Lance Armstrong just a helpless peon forced to dope by greedy sponsors? Or Tyler or Floyd or Jan or Ivan? Don't be ridiculous. They take the risks because they want the glory.

Believe it or not, but there are riders who have refused to buy into the rotten bargain of racing in the ProTour peloton. They just don't race. Tough choice, but some people have a strong moral compass.

helmutRoole2 · #30 09-12.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcklyde

I guess I sort of agree with you ... but only sort of. In the end, it is the rider who makes the last moral choice: he is the one who agrees to poison himself in order to win. They could say no. They could speak out about doping in the peloton. They could refuse to honor the omerta. The riders have the power to influence the managers.

So I'm not going to cry for the riders. They dope. They have been complicit with the doping. Almost none of them has bothered to try to stop it. And the ones that have? Lance Armstrong tells them to shut up or chases them down when they get in breaks.

Listen, is Lance Armstrong just a helpless peon forced to dope by greedy sponsors? Or Tyler or Floyd or Jan or Ivan? Don't be ridiculous. They take the risks because they want the glory.

Believe it or not, but there are riders who have refused to buy into the rotten bargain of racing in the ProTour peloton. They just don't race. Tough choice, but some people have a strong moral compass.

Yet another good post... Harry, whatever happened to Northwest Race Report.com? What a great site.. it was.

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