From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France (H - Page 3

A doping scandal that leads to your front door. Armstrong's silence on OP speaks volumes... cowboy.

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400

ok guys i can see it now.......Lance is in the dock....under cross examination the prosecution says " Lance with you coming from Texas...has anyone ever called you cowboy".....Lance says "yes"....Judge intervines and says " ok Lance your guilty, take him to the gallows".....err i don't think so.

Look you guys with the hate on Lance you MUST know something the governing bodies don't, you cant say that hes guilty without knowing something.....please tell us all what that is....goto the media and earn a few hundred thousand pound/dollars whatever.....do something, and please don't tell me its as laughable as the above quote, because that means zero. How many more times CONCRETE EVIDENCE is required otherwise he will always be 7 times Tour de France champ.....if some of you guys hate him so much and have something on him ................come forward...........phew!!! anyone else out their on my side instead of the "hang em now ask questions later brigade"

I dunno, don't think I'll be moving on until Lance gets around to explaining those 6 vials of EPO-positive piss.

He doesn't have to, the B samples were destroyed so the whole test is invalid....the B test was put in their specifically for this reason, people have tested positive in an A sample and negative in a B sample.....i remember a cross country skier, cant think of his name though, but it has happened...the '99 tests are irrelevant, if they weren't he would be in the same position has Riis and last i checked, he isn't

Are 6 B samples greater than 1 couple A +B ?

Because of almost all riders doped, i think it's better to reverse the law: everyone is guilty until proven innocent. In US you are innocent until guilty because of the guilty guy are very fewer than innocent people, that seems not the same in world of recent cycling! Above all if you had a testicle cancer, failed 6 testing EPO, you lost rubbish full of PEDs, you did superhuman performance, you beat the best riders doped with EPO and blood doping,...

It's very reasonable for everyone to believe that Armstrong doped. Not believe that is only stupid or at least naive

Look, I don't mean to cap on you, but it's telling of your intellect when you don't know the difference between their and there. You've done it couple times on this thread.

Anyway, if you understand physiology you'll understand that's it's not possible for a clean athlete to beat a doped athlete if all other things are equal. Now, I don't agree with Bro at all about Armstrong's pedigree. I think he was a rare talent. I mean, he won the Tour seven times. But I don't for a second believe that he did that as a clean athlete, towering 15+ percent over his opponents who were doping.

I am a Lance hater, though. I'll freely admit that. I guess my evolution in thought on this topic was brought about when he seemed to seriously entertain the possibility of running for president. What kind of egomaniacal a-hole could possibly believe that his experiences racing bicycles has prepared him to run a super power? He's like our current leader, a made for tv idiot.

Anyone else out there agree with me on that point?

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400

Yeah, but you have to admit, six positives? Sure, the rules stipulate that the B sample confirms the A sample, but six positives? I mean, you'd have to think that, had WADA been testing for EPO, one of his A samples would have come up hot, right?

Conspiracy, incompetent lab technicians... all that looks pretty flimsy in the face of six positives for EPO.

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400

From a sanctioning or legal perspective, I agree - it's too late for any of that. But that's not what this is about, nor does it really matter - the only question I care about as a cycling fan is whether or not Armstrong doped, period. I don't care whether he can still be sanctioned for it, I don't care whether he keeps his Tour wins or not, etc. And as a cycling fan, I would like to know why EPO was found in six vials of his piss in the '99 Tour. And it's no different for Riis, Ullrich, Pantani, Indurain, etc - I want to know if any or all of them were/are doping. Yet for some reason some of you who have no problems with knowing that the others were doping seem to draw the line at Armstrong, as if it becomes personal if you were to learn that he was doping (which, sorry to say, he almost certainly was). I find that very odd. What's the difference to you whether Riis was doping or whether Armstrong was doping?

At least Riis admitted to it.

Lance and his supporters can't.
And remember Armstrong's "wins" are tied in to insurance deals/bonus payments.
If he was ever to admit his guilt, those insurance companies would seek redress for, is wirefraud the correct terminology.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

This is not a court of law. It's a court of public opinion, and courts of public opinion don't let people off on technicalities. Armstrong doped and got away with it. He will not be sanctioned. That does not mean the public or racing fans have to give up common sense and not form the obvious conclusion based on the facts. Even without the EPO positives there is more than enough evidence to say Armstrong doped.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Are you saying that you don't think most of the peloton was doped???

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

As i have said before on these forums attacking someones so called intellect for making a grammer mistake is pathetic and you sir unless you have a PhD in English Language and have never made a grammer mistake are a prick and a hypocrite..... I must be getting under peoples skin here because stooping as low as this asshole shows very low IQ indeed...i didn't know that "big grammer brother" was watching.

Moving on to one of your points.....you say you don't believe he was clean being 15+ % better than doped riders.....ok where is the evidence.... there is none...only that you "believe".....well with you having a "towering intellect" you should know "believing" just isn't good enough. You say your a "Lance hater"....oh god this gets better....grow up, "hate" is a very strong word....i'm done here...think i will go and post under some "youtube vids", at least there you know you will get bigoted views.

Guess what, if this thread goes another 20-30 pages, Lance will have still won 7 Tour de France's (sigh how many more times and its me who is supposed to intellectually challenged). I'll post on here in a few months time and see if the same bulls*it is still going on. Like i say for the last time....WHEN LANCE ARMSTRONG GETS CONVICTED OF DOPING OFFENCES I WILL BE THE FIRST TO SAY "YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG"

To use a WBT expression, "The knife cuts deep."

In addition, the above paragraph contains at least five grammatical errors and two cases of poor or misguided word choice.

This is a written forum. Spelling and grammar count.

Is this your way addressing the six positives?

I bet you won't.

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400

Very true. Typically, they convict without evidence. A much better system of justice, if you're a sanctimonious prick, which describes most of you.

True. Those blind Armstrong supporters... sanctimonious pricks one and all.

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400