From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France (H - Page 5

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You touch on some good points. Just like you I did not really care for Armstrong early on. He was an asshole. That impression comes from a lot of incidents. He and his supporters have alleged that the euros hate him because an American won _their_ race, but I remember when he won the U.S. nationals. After the race he told the press he was looking forward to going over to Europe and sticking the jersey in their faces. He brought the dislike on himself.

Then there was the time he blew snot on Fondriest or Argentin, I forget which, and instead of apologizing, he starts with the "I'm Lance Armstrong, who are you?" crap. As fscyclists mentions, he seemed to have an incredible narcissism. After he abandoned triathlon for cycling, the young Miles Stewart was getting a lot of press. Armstrong showed up at a triathlon and strutted around, putting down Miles. I always found that odd. Why should he care what was going on in triathlonr? He just could not stand that he was no longer being talked about in tri circles.

I could go on and on but I concluded that he was a prick with a giant chip on his shoulder. Pro athletics, due to its competitive nature, attracts a lot jerks; so the fact that Armstrong was one was not enough to hate him. He just was not a rider I would cheer for.

It's the various ways he has portrayed his cancer that really gets me. I went through the same treatment. The rubes can buy the story he is selling, but it does not fool me.

First off, fscyclist mentions that you don't "fight" cancer. True. I became a great believer in luck, or fate as I sometimes think of it. It's like the doctor takes a die, writes death on a number of sides, and throws it. If you are lucky, you live; if you are not, you die. It is completely random. Armstrong building himself up by saying he beat cancer, unlike the other poor schmucks who did not, is disgusting.

Second, I don't much like people describing themselves as survivors or victims. It often seems to me to be a attempt to gain sympathy. Oh, look at poor me. It's often used as a way to make any accomplishment seem better. The American cult of victimhood does not have any traction with me. Things are tough all over. Everyone has problems.

Third is the thing that really gets me. Cancer is a horrible way to die. One conclusion that I came to is that suicide is a perfectly honorable cure for terminal cancer. Armstrong has used this to fool people. Many people have a mother, or a family member, a neighbor, or whoever who has slowly wasted away and died from cancer. Armstrong implies that he went through the same thing and triumphed. He has sometimes said that he was able to win a Tour stage because it was nothing compared to surviving cancer. But this is a cynical
lie.

Modern treatment for testicular cancer is almost a piece of cake. Not to say it is fun by any means, but it is not that bad. If treatment works out then it bears no resemblance to dying from cancer. The surgery is mostly out-patient surgery. You can be walking around later that day at home. Chemo is not fighting cancer; it's more like fighting boredom. You sit in a chair and have **** dripped into your veins while reading books or magazines. That only occurs for a week of a cycle. The rest of the cycle you are mostly free to kill time. Nausea varies. At worse it is like bad flu.

Personally, I find Armstrong's deceiving people over this offensive. Just as offensive is doping to win the Tour and then portraying himself as heroic for surviving cancer and then winning the Tour. Perpetrating a fraud upon people with cancer and their loved ones is simply despicable, especially when he does not need the gain.

I can understand Hamilton and Landis deceiving people to fight their doping cases. I don't agree with it, but I can understand how it must be to get popped for what everyone else is doing. They are fighting for their professional lives, but there is no reason for Armstrong to commit his fraud other than his ego and to make more money. For whatever reason I find what Armstrong has done is far worse than what other doping cyclists have done.

There are other issues that involve the corruption of American society and what it might hold for the future when the way to get ahead is to cheat or steal your way to the top, but that is something more appropriate for the soapbox.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

The other recent Tour winners are not selling books and making huge marketing $$$ saying that they are the only rider that trains, that cares about their food and equipment, that wants it etc.

This is highly insulting to all the other highly trained and highly doped cyclists.

Well put. Living in the UK, I was saved seeing all the adverts and other stuff you mention. But I saw (more than) enough of him so come to the same conclusion. On top of all that, he's also an arrogant bully. Not someone to get on the wrong side of given his power and influence.

...I think you should also mention they way he also paraded Crow around at the 2005 Tour with his kids then dumped her 3 months later ! I just had a bad feeling about the entire episode..... more so for his former wife who had to watch her children been loved up on TV by another woman... it would have been heartbreaking for her......

Of course LA had to have a book written about him. He saw the success Lemond had with the book that was written about him where he told of working harder then other riders. It's the American way. A trip to the local library and looking in the "celebrity Bios" section you will notice names of people who "did what?" Of course, LA"s story with the cancer survival and then winning one of the world's toughest sporting events is one of, if not the greatest sporting story of the past 100 years. That story alone thrust him into the world of media coverage here in America.
And by keeping himself in the news, he just followed the rules of publicity. And along the way, he used this publicity for raising money for cancer.
People jump on him for what he did to Kristen? That's a joke. Again if you have followed his career you will see her for what she is. She is the one who jumped his bones when he was involved with a women who was by his side during his cancer. She simply got what was coming to her.
Ego's ???? LA's was small compared to Hinaults and Fignon's. If you read Tour de France history, only Indurain was silent when speaking into a microphone. Ullrich maybe. One of the main ingrdients of making a champion in sport is selfishness. When sporting champions are looked into beyond their hype, that becomes noticable. If a rider with great talent does not want the world to revolve around him, he will never win the big ones very often. A Hampsten is an example of this. He was truly a nice guy. He never really won much considering his talent. His Giro win was somewhat of a fluke, but he was capable of more. "Nicenesss' held him back.

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"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

Does the Armstrong's life movie dope his popularity ?

If the truth explodes, he will wince ...

That's completely lame. I don't care that you choose to aim all that is wrong with cycling at Armstrong, that is your choice to make just as it is my choice to defend him when you do so. What is telling is that you do it while ignoring the fact that all the other riders are just as guilty yet you give them a free ride.

Jan Ullrich got a free ride???? Interesting!

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Who, exactly, is getting a free ride around here? Ullrich? Basso? Indurain? Riis? Pantani?

Take off the Armstrong blinkers, bud. You get a much better view.

Yes Ullrich has mostly a free ride from the Armstrong hate camp, as do most other riders. Not everyone on the forum is in the Armstrong hate camp. There are plenty of posters here who are objective. It just seems to me that those who profess the loudest against Armstrong are the ones who turn a blind eye towards their idols like Ullrich, Indurain, etc. Again, who is it that has their heads in the sand.

How many times have we seen threads like the "Zabel admits doping" thread turn into an Armstrong bash? What has this got to do with Zabel? How many threads have turned into an Ullrich or Indurain bash??

Its like Walsh. He writes a book about his obession with Armstrong, and now he needs to transcend that to Landis. Except that all the while the past X winners were doped also and he turns a blind eye. No mention of Op as if it didn't happen.

So why does this happen? maybe its because they are more easy to hate, will sell more books, who knows. But in the end if you bring down Armstrong and ignore the rest what has been achieved? Nothing, other than selling some books or satisfying some petty hatred.

I am talking about real life and not this forum.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Sorry I didn't make it clear. I was speaking about the Armstrong haters on this forum. Ullrich has certtainly not had a free ride via the media, nor in particular his countrymen.

This is tedious, wolf.
And if I might add very bizzare.

You take a shot at Armstrong's ex-wife.
Why?
I don't know his wife, I've no knowledge of her.
You take exception to his wife.
"you'll see her for what she is....."

And there's a pattern here.
Some weeks back you criticised Frankie Andreu's wife too.
You took exception to his wife.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

It's just that, well, he's so bashable.

Look, I'm not going to list the linty of ****ed up things the guy has done over the years, but if I sensed an ounce of coolness then maybe I wouldn't bash. With Ulrich, Indurain, Lemond (to a certain degree), there's a cool factor, but Lance is the Paris Hilton of the sports world. Hell, he even dated her. For **** sake, does it get any worse?

Dave, the guy's a tool. That's why we cap on him.

Best guy to concentrate on the Tour? Sure. Rare cycling talent? Yes. Total **** head? Gotta check that box too.

Sorry brutha. Stroke on over to dailypeloton. There's plenty of Lance-o-philes over there, probably including Armstrong himself.

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400

Yeah. This makes Armstrong look good.

So you're saying he dumped the woman who stayed by his side during chemo to be with the future ho of his children only to dump her too for a rock singer who he then dumped after she contracted cancer so he could date Paris Hilton?

Class act.

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400