From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France (H

http://www.amazon.com/Lance-Landis-I...0746496&sr=1-1

and you can get the fictionalised account also: http://www.amazon.com/Positively-Fal...0838660&sr=1-1

plus you get free: http://www.amazon.com/Tour-Dave-Shie...0838660&sr=1-1

So, you believe that a book with a title that infers that doping in cycling is a distinctly American problem has more credibility? The truth probably falls somewhere in the middle, no? It seems both are probably fictionalised. From Walsh's title, it does not sound as if OP ever even happened. It is just as bad to buy completely into the Walsh account as it is to buy into the Armstrong or Landis account imo.

Lance must be laughing is **** off....unless he confesses to it.....the bottom line is nobody will ever know if he doped or not......there a lot of people on forums saying he did.....he must have, to have beaten all the other doped cyclists that he was pissing on in his career... but would you put your house on it seriously ???? and that includes all the media.

some people say on this forum that he got cancer from doping.......that would be funny if it wasn't so serious.......i have had testicular cancer and its just fu**ing offensive to suggest PED's caused it....THE FACTS ARE THERE ARE NO FACTS TO THE CAUSE, end of story.

We will never be able to prove a negative as far has doping is concerned, and to say "well he must have because he pissed on everyone else" is such a piss poor argument.

Think about this.....is there just a chance that he just was better than everyone else at the time ??? Look at it this way their are many people out there that can do some extra-ordinary things on a mental level with their minds....i mean i have seen a woman who can multiply 2 13 digit numbers together faster than a computer.....did she cheat or take PED's to achieve this ??? or does her brain just do different things to mine or yours ???

Can anyone remember Michael Johnson hit 19.32 for 200m world record...he made everyone in that race look like a joke over that distance....was he doped or just better than everyone else.

What is the point of making any sacrifices in your life to push boundaries....if when you do push them everyone accuses you of cheating to get there

Lance won 7 Tour de France's in a row, its not going to change, he passed all the tests that were put in front of him at the time....what more can anyone want.....its time to move on

And have nothing to live for? Oh no, there is so much evidence out there that he did dope, it's just not provable. We hav'nt convinced the world yet that we have such insight to the sport that we are just amazed that no one else can see what we see and know.

There is the guy in the cubicle next to us who knows LA through LiveStrong, Nike ads, and an occasional plug on TV who really believes the guy when he says he didn't dope. Even though he is so sick of us rambling on with our perceptions of the sport, a sport he really doesn't care about , he knows in the end, we will have convinced him too.

We have to bring this LA guy down. He's just too popular. Just this week in my backwater town a teenage boy was operated on for testicular cancer. This summer when Lance shows up to do a week long ride across my state, this boy gets facetime with Lance. We want our hero's to be on "Wanted Posters" like JU is at this moment. We do not want them to suceed.

Continue...........

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"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

I thought we were talking about cycling and PED's not cancer ? - oh course if you do good off the bike and bring yourself in 12 million a year then you are clean..... and what of the other cyclists ? the clean ones ? the ones who could have won and achieved higher salaries ? Do there families go hungry because Lance helps sick people ? and of course creating awareness for cancer is more noble than being honest. Come on Wolf !

Where are these 'clean' cyclists? If OP and the 90's confessions tell us anything, it is that doping runs to the highest levels of cycling, and it's pretty much the entire peloton.

Can't have it both ways. You want to claim that cycling is mostly a Euro sport, then their conduct becomes a Euro issue as well. Walsh is an utter hypocrite to disregard the greatest doping scandal in cycling, while trying to divert attention toward the Americans. Typical sports writer - cater to the home crowd by overlooking their team's shortcomings while demonizing the opposition. That's not even yellow journalism. It's brown journalism. If you buy into that, then you buy into the same 'head in the sand' post Festina attitude that led to Puerto.

It wasn't the evil, scheming Americans who started the doping. It was your own. Long before LA rose to prominence, Riis was blasting EPO, so was Ullrich, and probably Pantani as well. That's three Tour de France winners in a row. Blaming the Americans is just making excuses. Worse than that, it won't solve the problem. Get all of the nasty Americans out of cycling, and you'd still have a serious doping problem.

No, LA isn't helping hungry people. He's helping a lot of desperately ill people who have a life threatening disease. Out of public, he's an arrogant, self serviant cretin. In public, he has raised a lot of money for cancer research, raised a lot of awareness about the need to pursue cancer research, and given hope to a lot of desperate people. For that, I can probably overlook his somewhat caddish personal life.

WBT..I'm so disapointed in you........You used to be the best poster here with that surreal attitude you have......
Work on it....... This forum is starting to be a repeat of 2004,2005, 2006. ...... You get my point.
Nobody goes hungry when there is doping in sport. The doctors have to employ runners and researchers. The UCI gets bribed at the back door, the journalists sells books. Has anyone ever really thought about how cycling is in the news more then ever? The money still flows.......

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"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

Finally a book, that describes the whole controversy. Anyone of you name me one book, ONE single book in English that ever put in doubt Armstrong's integrity in winning the Tours.

There are loads of evidence he might (I confirm "might") have doped, but not one single English speaking book showed them. I read "LA Confidential" and "LA Officiel" from Walsh in French. Even if you don't believe he doped, read the book. Trust me !

Sure, we will. He tested positive six times for EPO.

No, there is not. The advantage of EPO and blood doping is huge. Pro races are won by differences of a few percent. He would have to be naturally 10% to 15% better than everyone else to have raced clean. If that were the case then it would have been evident in the first half of his career. Instead he was only moderately successful, was not able to climb in the high mountains, and was not even able to finish the Tour before he encouraged his Motorola teammates to use EPO in1995.

To believe that Armstrong was not doping and still beat all the other doping pros then you have to believe that he suddenly turned into superman half way through is career. This, of course, takes place in an era where the way people are turned in supermen is by doping.

What is your explanation for Armstrong's sudden transformation?

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

You have right here...
Negative marketing is still marketing.

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"Soldiers! Heroes!

The supreme command has erased our regiment from its records. Our regiment has been sacrificed for the honor of Belgrade and the Fatherland. Therefore, you no longer have to worry for your lives - they do not exist anymore.
So, forward to glory! For King and country! Long live the king! Long live Belgrade! "

When you look death in the face and beat it what else can scare you.

What does that have anything to do with anything? Do you suddenly sustain 60, 80 , or more watts after cancer? I didn't.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

no meltdowns, EVER.

anyone suspicious? Lance never bonked, cept maybe Sheryl.

This is just ridiculous, their is NO evidence otherwise Armstrong would be in the same boat as Basso, Heras, Hamilton, Riis. The plain fact is he is not. What do you know or anyone on this forum, what inside information do you have.....if you have something take it to the WADA, or better still mortgage your house and take him to court for "sporting fraud" , the first thing you could ask him under cross examination is "What is your explanation for your sudden transformation".

He would then trawl out more doctors than you have fingers that could give you this explanation, none of it unless your a expert in the field you could understand.

Doesn't anyone understand that without evidence that would stand up in a court of law the case is a non-starter.

Evidence that comprises of "I read on the internet" isn't going to hold much water.....in fact no water at all, and lets face it the internet is full of more sh*t than your average sewage works.

Where did you hear he tested positive six times for EPO, errrr on the internet. If this is correct why isn't it front page news, why hasn't he been sanctioned he hasn't because i believe his "B" samples had been destroyed......well end of story then because the procedures that have been laid down have been broken.

Another point, which i admit is pure speculation but is worth mentioning non the less.....Why was he better in 2000, 2001, 2004 than he was in 1999, when EPO testing was in full swing ??.......oh i know it must have been something else he took or something else he did.....well with that kind of evidence the judge is sure to come down on your side......NOT.

Forums are for opinion and discussion, they are not used in court and as far as i'm aware are not admissable evidence. Just except it Lance Armstrong was better than everyone else in the Tour de France between 1999-2005, if evidence to the contrary arises I will be the first person here to say i was wrong.

Other reasons regarding why he was better later in his career

1 Some people develop later in their career

2 He weighed less than earlier in his career , now everyone knows weight IS the biggest hurdle when it comes to climbing...just 3kg's more on Alpe du 'Huez i believe would cost you 3 minutes for the same power output

3 I suffered testicular cancer had chemo and all the rest of it.....and you know i was better on the bike around 6 months onwards after my treatment and you know i have no explanation for this and i had been injected with Bleomicen, which is a chemo drug that does effect the lungs in a bad way....Armstrong by the way didn't use this drug for this reason, he chose an alternative.

On a lighter note i think i was quicker on the bike because i had had one of my huge testicles removed it must of weighed a couple of kilos