Good article on the performance effects of EPO

http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2...mance-who.html

In fact this whole site is really good for all sort of things like fluid intake, electrolytes, cramping, etc.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Thanks for that link. It's now on my favorites list.

It's a shame they couldn't have done more testing than just "peak power" and "time until exhaustion". And I'm not sure how scientific their science is. But it seems they don't have any particular agenda other than reader interest. Though they may not have to suffer scientific scrutiny like they would if they published their results in a reputable journal.

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As long as I am handing out links, here's another one:

http://cyclingfansanonymous.blogspot.com/

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

I like that site. It touches on doping, but has mostly non-doping stuff. The more scientific approach, presented in an accessible way, is good. I am always looking for info on hyponatremia and fluid intake that can be applied to 12+ hour races since I have had problems in that area in the past.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Have you tried searching the medical journals at your nearest university? Or do you need to have a student card to get in there?

I suppose that sort of research might be outside the box for physicians.

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Try . 17 million citations from medical journals and used by most research professionals.

IlPirata will never believe all the lies in there about his hero but lets get real. EPO plus all the other **** makes the prospect of a clean athlete even winning a stage vanishingly small without a large dollop of good fortune.
Further down amongst the emails is a tiny reference to Ethiopian athletes. I believe African athletes have been given a free pass for years. People naively and ignorantly dismiss them as being too unsophisticated to be using the fruits of Western research. When reasons are advanced for their dominance there are interesting parallels with the spurious excuses deployed by Team Lance. They variously ascribe success as being due variously to different physiology, training twice a day (of course nobody else does this), eating special native carbohydrates, greater dedication etc.
While there are undeniably important cultural and genetic elements at work to explain African successes, none of this would be relevant if they didn't have access to exactly the same Peds that are in widespread use amongst their Western counterparts. Without them the performance differential would simply be too great to make up.

Oh dear. The PC army are coming. Head for the hills!!!

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That's the second very naughty word I've used recently.

interesting reading. kind of makes g. lemond's case a bit stronger and begs the question of l. armstrong. like those urine samples from his first Tour de France which showed some contamination of a certain (and then unprohibited) substance...

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"Kick over the statues and the tyrants die. Wave bye bye to their heroes with a hammer."
--The Redskins, Kick Over the Statues

Genetically the people of Ethiopia and Kenya do have a genetic predisposition
in terms of endurance sports.
It's an established fact that this is so and it has been known for many years.

However and I think that this is the point that you're referring to gregers, a lot of athletes from that part of the world are not monitored to the same level
as say athletes in Europe/USA/Aus for example.
And the rumour has been that athletes from that part of the world have not been subject to the same checks as others.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

The genetic issue has been shrouded in controversy for obvious reasons.75% of Kenyan runners hail from the Kalenjin tribe which has 10% of the poulation. Danish scientists reckon these athletes are born with up to 75% fast twitch fibres so they start with a pretty sizeable advantage. Other researches believe that long leg levers and light skeletons with low body fat are also advantageous but these findings are almost inevitably disputed.
If you add in the fact that they live in a temperate zone at around 2000m, it is pretty clear that conditions are pretty benevolent for distance running. Throw in the cultural advantages- most kids walk or run everywhere and there is a strong economic impetus and prestige associated with being an international athlete-and it is no mystery why so many of them succeed.
The drugs issue is more problematical. Although they may largely be inaccessible while at home, most of their better athletes reside for much of the time in England , USA and Japan. However it is probably fair to say that their peripatetic lifestyle and an impoverished Kenyan bureaucracy makes out-of-competition testing less onerous for them. On the international circuit, though, the simple fact that they win regularly makes them more likely to be tested.
What I was trying to make clear is that it would be a big mistake to characterise these serial winners as simple, happy, clappy Africans. They are very sophisticated athletes and often quite wealthy. They use exactly the same products as their western counterparts and are equally savvy about how to evade testing positive.

I think I'd be a little more cautious, did the Fins have a genetic superiority when they were dominating distance running, do the Belgians have a genetic superiority for cyclocross?

It may be the case, but I think it's far from an established fact.

I was a runner before I came to cycling (~10yrs ago) and read the various running mags. I can remember thinking isn't it odd how most of the top Kenyans live and are trained in "stables" by Italian and German doctors. It might be interesting if anyone had the time to go back and look up who these doctors were/are. Back then it was pretty common for this to be reported without the concern there is nowadays.

The fact that there were a couple of top Spanish marathoners (Fiz? and somebody else's name I can't remember) makes a lot more sense now as well.

Was there not a time when a lot of the africans were being brought to races in the U.S. by agents who would front the expenses in exchange for a cut of the winnings? They would be brought over in small groups. There would be big temptation to add something extra to their Wheaties.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates