Giro 2008 Stage 16 - May 26: San Vigilio di Marebbe => Plan de Corones (ITT), 12.85km - Page 3

thoughtforfood · #31 05-26.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RdBiker

Well take Contador or Rasmussen from last year's Tour and they would probably have blown Pellizzotti and Sella away by at least a minute...well maybe not that much but if Contador got 6W/kg with his current fitness then 7W/kg wouldn't such outlandish in top form IMO. Well atleast if you round up the numbers...(6W=6.4W and 7W=6.6W)

Reality calling.........<you>"hello" <me>"Hey dude, Armsrtong doped and so does Contador."

RdBiker · #32 05-26.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

Reality calling.........<you>"hello" <me>"Hey dude, Armsrtong doped and so does Contador."

Well you have an easier comparison:
Rasmussen doped + Contador could stay with him in the mountains = Contador dopes...

RdBiker · #33 05-26.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteboytrash

If Contador wins the Giro it will be the end of cycling. Doping aside he's done absolutely nothing to deserve to win a Grand Tour. He has not attacked, he's followed wheels the entire race & threw in a good time trial performance here and there. What a let down ! I have to say Pelazotti and Ricco have to gang up on him.... even Simonei may have to get involved with DiLuca..... otherwise Contador will win.

I thought you have to have the stages covered in the shortest time to win a grand tour...

Yes you are right that Contador hasn't attacked very much in this Giro, at least not as much as in the Tour he won. He did attack at least once though: If you watched the latest mountain stage he went after Ricco by attacking Menchov and Simoni. He was caught though, but he attacked nevertheless.
And anyways he's in the Giro to win the maglia rosa and not to be a true champion...what would be the point of attacking if he could barely hang on the Giau. I'd understand if you were saying this about Evans but based on for example the last Tour de France Contador is anything but a wheelsucker

Wayne666 · #34 05-26.-2008

[QUOTE=whiteboytrash]If Contador wins the Giro it will be the end of cycling. Doping aside he's done absolutely nothing to deserve to win a Grand Tour./QUOTE]

I agree. Being the de facto leader for the last 3 days neither he or his team have taken any responsibility. Even his attack of Menchov yesterday was shameful after he had never once stuck his nose in the wind up until that point.

That being said the others were lambs when they had him dropped on Sunday and didn't persist only to see him come good on the final climb.

He should take it unless he really cracks on one of these stages. The guys who are slightly stronger than him on the climbs need a buffer of at least a couple of minutes going into the final time trial. Doesn't look like they're going to get that by waiting until the final climb to attack.

RdBiker · #35 05-26.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne666

I agree. Being the de facto leader for the last 3 days neither he or his team have taken any responsibility. Even his attack of Menchov yesterday was shameful after he had never once stuck his nose in the wind up until that point.

That being said the others were lambs when they had him dropped on Sunday and didn't persist only to see him come good on the final climb.

He should take it unless he really cracks on one of these stages. The guys who are slightly stronger than him on the climbs need a buffer of at least a couple of minutes going into the final time trial. Doesn't look like they're going to get that by waiting until the final climb to attack.

You have a good point there. Astana would defend themselves by saying that they haven't had the maglia rosa but on wednesday they won't have even that. So then they should at least lead the peloton. It's odd because they did have quite a strong team coming to the Giro. Have they been saving their riders?

musette · #36 05-27.-2008

It doesn't matter how frequently you attack, or whether your team has been defending the maglia rosa. If you are strategically astute to be able to cause other teams to do part of your work for you, and you save your team's energy, all the better. If you have the maglia rosa, your team may decide to play more of a leadership role, but that's not necessary at times.

Go, AC!

earth_dweller · #37 05-27.-2008

hey lookie it's the hypocrite coming out again...

so who are you going to accuse of doping and then play the innocent 'who me' while defending your AC and JB?

So which poster is now in front of you bed Johan or Alberto (or Bert like the fans like to call him to americanize his name)?

Ashley.S.Olsen · #38 05-27.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by musette

It doesn't matter how frequently you attack, or whether your team has been defending the maglia rosa. If you are strategically astute to be able to cause other teams to do part of your work for you, and you save your team's energy, all the better. If you have the maglia rosa, your team may decide to play more of a leadership role, but that's not necessary at times.

Go, AC!

i have to agree. AC has ridden brilliantly. he has conserved his energies and used them only when required. bruyneel and sean yates asked kloden and leipheimer to hold back in the early mountain stages to be ready to support alberto in the final week when he is wearing the coveted maglia rosa. the strategy has worked perfectly and the sweetest taste is that the italians have fallen into the contador/bruyneel trap. it reminds me of armstrongs winning blueprint from his seven successive victories in the tour de france. this one sweeter as astana only had one weeks preparation.

Crankyfeet · #39 05-27.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley.S.Olsen

i have to agree. AC has ridden brilliantly. he has conserved his energies and used them only when required. bruyneel and sean yates asked kloden and leipheimer to hold back in the early mountain stages to be ready to support alberto in the final week when he is wearing the coveted maglia rosa. the strategy has worked perfectly and the sweetest taste is that the italians have fallen into the contador/bruyneel trap. it reminds me of armstrongs winning blueprint from his seven successive victories in the tour de france. this one sweeter as astana only had one weeks preparation.

Respect your views Mellow J. AD98...

**limerickman** · #40 05-27.-2008

Really good ITT : I just re-watched it again this morning.
Parcours made for interesting riding.
Great ride by Pelezotti and Simoni.
Simoni's ride was very good - 36 years of age too.

NJK · #41 05-27.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley.S.Olsen

i have to agree. AC has ridden brilliantly. he has conserved his energies and used them only when required. bruyneel and sean yates asked kloden and leipheimer to hold back in the early mountain stages to be ready to support alberto in the final week when he is wearing the coveted maglia rosa. the strategy has worked perfectly and the sweetest taste is that the italians have fallen into the contador/bruyneel trap. it reminds me of armstrongs winning blueprint from his seven successive victories in the tour de france. this one sweeter as astana only had one weeks preparation.

Only a weeks preparation. They probably did what most teams did in the last week before a tour, not alot. He was in decent shape prior to the Giro, winning small tours etc. Look at the GC other contenders they weren't exactly prolific in the spring races.

musette · #42 05-27.-2008

It doesn't matter if if Astana has been deliberately saving his riders or undertaking other strategy. The bottom line is that Astana did not need to expend whatever energies their riders had, if others were willing to do the work in part for them. Why reject a gift if one has strategically capable enough to see the potential gift?

The virtual maglia rosa argument is even more attenuated. The fact there is another team had the maglia rosa, with a rider that nobody expected, even at the time he was wearing a maglia rosa, to be the GC winner in the end. Yet, to that team, every single day their rider is in pink is a glory, and is wonderful for that team's more limited objectives FOR THAT DAY (which do not necessarily including winning the GC with that particular wearer). So, why shouldn't the ACTUAL maglia rosa team be trying to control things so that they keep the maglia rosa another day, which that team (unlike Astana) may view as very valuable in and of itself (even if the relevant day is not the final day of the Giro)?

thunder · #43 05-27.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by musette

It doesn't matter if if Astana has been deliberately saving his riders or undertaking other strategy. The bottom line is that Astana did not need to expend whatever energies their riders had, if others were willing to do the work in part for them. Why reject a gift if one has strategically capable enough to see the potential gift?

The virtual maglia rosa argument is even more attenuated. The fact there is another team had the maglia rosa, with a rider that nobody expected, even at the time he was wearing a maglia rosa, to be the GC winner in the end. Yet, to that team, every single day their rider is in pink is a glory, and is wonderful for that team's more limited objectives FOR THAT DAY (which do not necessarily including winning the GC with that particular wearer). So, why shouldn't the ACTUAL maglia rosa team be trying to control things so that they keep the maglia rosa another day, which that team (unlike Astana) may view as very valuable in and of itself (even if the relevant day is not the final day of the Giro)?

everyone knows Astana get their refills on the rest day Musie

TheDarkLord · #44 05-27.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJK

Only a weeks preparation. They probably did what most teams did in the last week before a tour, not alot. He was in decent shape prior to the Giro, winning small tours etc. Look at the GC other contenders they weren't exactly prolific in the spring races.

The "weeks preparation" is just a BS spin of JB to cover his ass. Micron posted that Sean Yates said that they knew for a month at least that they were going to the Giro (although he immediately backtracked) http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpos...92&postcount=4. What is really funny is how the cultists swallow all this BS, and then go around accusing others of doping.

**limerickman** · #45 05-27.-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by musette

It doesn't matter if if Astana has been deliberately saving his riders or undertaking other strategy. The bottom line is that Astana did not need to expend whatever energies their riders had, if others were willing to do the work in part for them. Why reject a gift if one has strategically capable enough to see the potential gift?

The virtual maglia rosa argument is even more attenuated. The fact there is another team had the maglia rosa, with a rider that nobody expected, even at the time he was wearing a maglia rosa, to be the GC winner in the end. Yet, to that team, every single day their rider is in pink is a glory, and is wonderful for that team's more limited objectives FOR THAT DAY (which do not necessarily including winning the GC with that particular wearer). So, why shouldn't the ACTUAL maglia rosa team be trying to control things so that they keep the maglia rosa another day, which that team (unlike Astana) may view as very valuable in and of itself (even if the relevant day is not the final day of the Giro)?

..........................................................I think that's what can best be described as waffling.

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