2009 TDF : Stage 4 : Tuesday 7 July : Montpellier > Montpellier : 39kms - Page 5

guncha · #61 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

are you smoking crack? have you actually looked at the profile? the Arcalis climb is preceded by ~50km of uphill before the climb starts proper.. this will be a huge test..

is that comment a joke or something?

It has 4,5% over the last 27km. Before that there is 1% or 2% sections. Final 11km has 6.9%. This climb is not in the same league with Tour's legendary passes. It is a typical 1st cat. climb and nothing more.
Vuelta has finished there many times and it has almost never created serious time gaps.
JU won at Arcalis in 1997 but it had 5 high mountain passes that year including 35km Envalira. And even then Jan got 1 min. on second placed Pantani. This year there is only two high mountain passes and Seraa-Seca looks like a 2nd cat. climb.

Andrija · #62 07-07.-2009

I think that now is on Astana to make this race interesting. Whether tactically or personally - the show should be theirs. They're already stealing the show from Columbia.

Andrija · #63 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by guncha

It has 4,5% over the last 27km. Before that there is 1% or 2% sections. Final 11km has 6.9%. This climb is not in the same league with Tour's legendary passes. It is a typical 1st cat. climb and nothing more.
Vuelta has finished there many times and it has almost never created serious time gaps.
JU won at Arcalis in 1997 but it had 5 high mountain passes that year including 35km Envalira. And even then Jan got 1 min. on second placed Pantani. This year there is only two high mountain passes and Seraa-Seca looks like a 2nd cat. climb.

Consider it's first uphill finish on the first high mountain stage in this year's race.
As you can see in your 1997 report, pure climbers will be disadvantaged and I must notice that no one from GC contenders in this year's tour is pure climber.

guncha · #64 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrija

I'm just curious if all four Astana top GC men will be given the freedom to ride for themselves on Arcalis.

I don't think LA will ride for AC and vice versa.

nonns · #65 07-07.-2009

Awwww you mean they wont show each other the love :->

save_ferris · #66 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotttri

It's sad for him but perhaps sadder for Australia who is looking and riding there hopes on Cadel. Cycling is takeing off in Australia....thanx in part to Cadel, O'Grady and McEwen, but are looking for to much. Australia is a powerhouse in track cycling but not road cycling, but over achieves in many sports

What about Mick Rogers? He's a 3-time World Champion in the ITT.

doctorSpoc · #67 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by guncha

It has 4,5% over the last 27km. Before that there is 1% or 2% sections. Final 11km has 6.9%. This climb is not in the same league with Tour's legendary passes. It is a typical 1st cat. climb and nothing more.
Vuelta has finished there many times and it has almost never created serious time gaps.
JU won at Arcalis in 1997 but it had 5 high mountain passes that year including 35km Envalira. And even then Jan got 1 min. on second placed Pantani. This year there is only two high mountain passes and Seraa-Seca looks like a 2nd cat. climb.

for sure it's not a traditional climb for the climbing specialist.. it's a power climb, but an incredibly long one... kind of like the equivalent of a REALLY, REALLY long crosswind... it's not about the steepness of the climb but the speed that it is ridden at... riders will be ground down over the prelude to the climb proper then hit hard at the bottom getting rid of the pretenders and then slowly ground down again over the course of the rest of the climb climb... plus let compare it to Alpe d'Huez... Alpe d'Huez --> 13km @ 7.9 and this one is 50km of ever increasing false flat followed by 11km @ 6.9%

and 1 minute is a lot of time... 2 mins is a huge gap for any mountain stage... 1 min would be a pretty good day at the office for any mountain stage.. how much time did pantani put into ullrich on Alpe d'Huez that year? 47sec... i'm not getting your point? 1 minute is pretty damn good... 30 secs gets Contador the yellow jersey.

**limerickman** · #68 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrija

Consider it's first uphill finish on the first high mountain stage in this year's race.
As you can see in your 1997 report, pure climbers will be disadvantaged and I must notice that no one from GC contenders in this year's tour is pure climber.

There is no out and out pure climber in this years Tour de France (none of the main GC contenders, at least).

It probably favours Alberto Contador most.

guncha · #69 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorSpoc

for sure it's not a traditional climb for the climbing specialist.. it's a power climb, but an incredibly long one... kind of like the equivalent of a REALLY, REALLY long crosswind... it's not about the steepness of the climb but the speed that it is ridden at... riders will be ground down over the prelude to the climb proper then hit hard at the bottom getting rid of the pretenders and then slowly ground down again over the course of the rest of the climb climb... plus let compare it to Alpe d'Huez... Alpe d'Huez --> 13km @ 7.9 and this one is 50km of ever increasing false flat followed by 11km @ 6.9%

My point is very simple: a few hard climbs plus a hard mountaintop finish is more likely to provide a significant time gaps than a climb with false flat section. As an example look at Vuelta 2007 when riders did the exact 50+km climb to Arcalis. A group of seven (!) riders finished together in 2007.
My prediction is that either a favourites will finish together or there will be a maximum of 15 or 20 seconds difference between top riders.

**steve** · #70 07-07.-2009

YouTube - Tour de France 2009 - Stage 4 - Team time trial - Final kilometers and results

DiabloScott · #71 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by guncha

I don't understand why Arcalis is rated as H.C. climb because it's steepest part is quite short.

Arcalis is the easiest HC I've ever seen. It's shorter and less steep than quite a few famous Cat 1's like Peyresourde and Marie-Blanc.

The only semi-justifiable reason for giving it an HC is the altitude - 2240m is up there with Galibier and Izoard and way taller than most of the Cat 1's.

**limerickman** · #72 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott

Arcalis is the easiest HC I've ever seen. It's shorter and less steep than quite a few famous Cat 1's like Peyresourde and Marie-Blanc.

The only semi-justifiable reason for giving it an HC is the altitude - 2240m is up there with Galibier and Izoard and way taller than most of the Cat 1's.

I recognise that avatar!

Haven't seen you in these parts for a while.
Welcome back.

DiabloScott · #73 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

I recognise that avatar!

Haven't seen you in these parts for a while.
Welcome back.

Thanks Lim. I'm just here to stir up a little trouble in this love nest.

I had Evans picked as my "biggest GC disappointment"... he's not disappointing me.

thebluetrain · #74 07-07.-2009

This Tour de France is far from over. LA is about to endure some of the heaviest attacking he has ever had to deal with. Everyone is going to be gunning for him. The only question is going to be, does he have enough left to take it. AC is going be tough to contend with.

Cobblestones · #75 07-07.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfrogger

I usually find TTTs pretty dull but I spent some time in Montpelier and really look forward to seeing the place again.

I spent a couple of weeks in Montpellier 25 years ago. Beautiful place. Place de la Comedie, the Aqeuduct, Rue Foch, the Antigone, the windy causeway to the beach. I recognized quite a bit. Ah good memories.

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