Go Back   Cycling Forums » Bikes » Professional Cycling
Professional Cycling This is the place to bring all your Giro, Vuelta a Espaņa and Tour de France chat. If you follow the the Classics and other professional bike races post here.













Lance positive? - Page 5

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 07-12.-2009
poulidor's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,423
Rep Power: 5
poulidor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansmind View Post
So the fact that another guy currently racing, and losing 8kg in weight enabling him to become more efficient in climbing.. is pure bull**** as well? I wasn't referencing the study specifically.. I was pointing out that physical changes in two different riders seem to have provided better performance, specifically in the mountains.
According the "study" of Dr. Edward F. Coyle (University of Texas) the weight of Lance Armstrong didn't show that loss :
* 11/1992 : 78,9 kg
* 01/1993 : 76,5 kg
* 09/1993 : 75,1 kg
* 08/1997 : 79,5 kg
* 09/1999 : 79,7 kg
Dr.Coyle published the erroneous "study" saying Lance had changed his physiology after cancer...
Of course, none of his collegues have agreed with him. He was blamed for his sloppy work!
Improved muscular efficiency displayed as Tour de France champion matures -- Coyle 98 (6): 2191 -- Journal of Applied Physiology
See all links in response to that "study"
The Science of Sport: Coyle and Armstrong: Research "errors" evaluation
__________________
6 +2 (according Ashenden) samples with EPO should have banned Lance Armstrong to start next TDF !
Reply With Quote


  #62  
Old 07-12.-2009
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 752
Rep Power: 6
Mansmind is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poulidor View Post
According the "study" of Dr. Edward F. Coyle (University of Texas) the weight of Lance Armstrong didn't show that loss :
* 11/1992 : 78,9 kg
* 01/1993 : 76,5 kg
* 09/1993 : 75,1 kg
* 08/1997 : 79,5 kg
* 09/1999 : 79,7 kg
Dr.Coyle published the erroneous "study" saying Lance had changed his physiology after cancer...
Of course, none of his collegues have agreed with him. He was blamed for his sloppy work!
Improved muscular efficiency displayed as Tour de France champion matures -- Coyle 98 (6): 2191 -- Journal of Applied Physiology
See all links in response to that "study"
The Science of Sport: Coyle and Armstrong: Research "errors" evaluation

Thanks for the info! Very interesting in that he APPEARS to have lost weight. I guess he just moved it around some. His upper torso appears much more lean to me post cancer.
Reply With Quote


  #63  
Old 07-12.-2009
poulidor's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,423
Rep Power: 5
poulidor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

The most damaging piece is
Cyclismag, le cyclisme ā visage humain : magazine du cyclisme

That is damaging not only for Lance but other riders, we can see easily the effect of EPO on performance. Who can believe that it's possible to win against riders who have 20% more power than riders like Hinault or Lemond?

Coherent with
The Science of Sport: The effect of EPO on performance: Who wouldn't want to use it?
Attached Thumbnails
Lance positive?-cyclismag_chart.png   Lance positive?-epo_effect.png  
__________________
6 +2 (according Ashenden) samples with EPO should have banned Lance Armstrong to start next TDF !
Reply With Quote


  #64  
Old 07-12.-2009
Bro Deal's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Resting by the Tumtum tree
Posts: 6,549
Rep Power: 10
Bro Deal is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansmind View Post
So the fact that another guy currently racing, and losing 8kg in weight enabling him to become more efficient in climbing.. is pure bull**** as well? I wasn't referencing the study specifically.. I was pointing out that physical changes in two different riders seem to have provided better performance, specifically in the mountains.
Yup, it's bullsh!t. Armstrong's racing weight was an issue during the SCA arbitration. In his deposition Armstrong was forced to admit that his weight loss was less than one or two kilos (I forget which). He was extremely evasive during questioning. He raced the 2005 Tour de France at 75 kg, which is no lighter and maybe even slightly heavier than he raced TdFs at before cancer.

Armstrong has a history of lying about his weight as a way of explaining his performance increase. Lots of riders who have had a magic jump in performance have an outrageous cover story.
__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates
Reply With Quote


  #65  
Old 07-12.-2009
Bro Deal's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Resting by the Tumtum tree
Posts: 6,549
Rep Power: 10
Bro Deal is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansmind View Post
...but there's no way to weight that accurately is there? He hasn't been the only cyclist to be Ferrari fueled, just the only one to win 7 Tour de France's with it.
Actually from 1999 - 2005 Armstrong was the only cyclist who was Ferrari fueled at the Tour. Armstrong's contract with Dr. Ferrari forbade him from "training" any of Armstrong's Tour rivals. After Armstrong retired, new Ferrari clients like Landis and Vino had giant leaps in performance.
__________________
"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates
Reply With Quote


  #66  
Old 07-12.-2009
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
Rep Power: 2
jimmypop is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansmind View Post
So the fact that another guy currently racing, and losing 8kg in weight enabling him to become more efficient in climbing.. is pure bull**** as well? I wasn't referencing the study specifically.. I was pointing out that physical changes in two different riders seem to have provided better performance, specifically in the mountains.
Apologies, I thought it was a direct reference to Armstrong's "transformation".
Reply With Quote


  #67  
Old 07-12.-2009
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
Rep Power: 2
jimmypop is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansmind View Post
Thanks for the info! Very interesting in that he APPEARS to have lost weight. I guess he just moved it around some. His upper torso appears much more lean to me post cancer.
Also, the study involved Armstrong telephoning in his weight to Coyle. That's sort of a red flag.
Reply With Quote


  #68  
Old 07-12.-2009
TheDarkLord's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,894
Rep Power: 5
TheDarkLord is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmypop View Post
Also, the study involved Armstrong telephoning in his weight to Coyle. That's sort of a red flag.
Didn't it also involve data that "disappeared" and was no longer available for peer review?
Reply With Quote


  #69  
Old 07-12.-2009
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
Rep Power: 2
jimmypop is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansmind View Post
He still appears much larger than "the chicken" though..at least to my memory. I used to wonder how Rass could even hold a bicycle up.. much less rotate the pedals up a mountain..without breaking a bone.
He was a twig during his MTB days as well, and to see him duking it out in the dirt with the bulkier mountain bikers of the day was humorous. He's a decent bike handler, though you'd never know based on that horrendous Tour de France TT a few years back.

No doubt, Ras was on jet fuel in those days as well.
Reply With Quote


  #70  
Old 07-12.-2009
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
Rep Power: 2
jimmypop is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Lance positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkLord View Post
Didn't it also involve data that "disappeared" and was no longer available for peer review?
That was a revelation from last fall, I believe. Coyle has been discredited by his former peers based on this cluster**** of a "study".
Reply With Quote


Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
lance, positive

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Copyright © 2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright Š 2001 - 2009 cyclingforums.com

Translations (powered by Google):
Bulgarian Croatian Czech Danish Dutch English Finnish French German Italian Japanese Korean Norwegian Polish Portuguese Spanish Swedish