DiLuca positive for EPO (CERA) ?? - Page 3

Don't whine. Your like already the yellow color! and your idol smells like urine and poopoo. That is the problem when they are getting old.

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6 +2 (according Ashenden) samples with EPO should have banned Lance Armstrong to start next TDF !

Your background in analytical chemistry should be very old and/or very low by comparaison with people working for 10 years in a doping lab and studying EPO.
Do you have noticed that one of the object of all WADA lab is to kept frozen for later retesting?
No one said that EPO didn't disappear with time but it's clear now that it takes more times than thought initialy. If EPO were so rapidly destroyed so why Lance don't agree/ask for a retesting of his 1999 samples? Probaly he will request it in 20 years when he will be sure that every EPO totaly disappeared.

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6 +2 (according Ashenden) samples with EPO should have banned Lance Armstrong to start next TDF !

That's because I strip away conjecture and look at the facts.

Keeping peptides frozen doesn't guarantee preservation. That's like saying it's ok for diabetics to rely on insulin (another fragile peptide) that is 5 years past its expiration date.

You are correct, I don't work for a WADA lab. However, neither do I know of a scientific study that demonstrates long term stability of frozen EPO, and the test method almost certainly specifies a maximum storage time for a sample (probably 30 days). The fact that such an old sample would unexpectedly test positive leaves three possibilities:

(1) The test is subject to interference.
(2) The test was genuinely positive.
(3) Someone tampered with the sample.

Again, there is no valid test sample that proves LA is/was positive for performance enhancing drugs. This statement is what it is, nothing more or less. Don't read more into it than is there.

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Originally Posted by Flyer:
It is a matter of reading comprehension that you challenged by.

That kind of questions have been resolved with the same validity of all other science problem.

No doubt for scientists, rEPO were found in Lance's urines!
Tampering were not possible! And if possible how to tamper Lance's urine sample amongst all other anonymous samples.

Just read Ashenden's interview:
Michael Ashenden | Velocity Nation - Bike racing culture, news and events

Of course there is a lot of clues and evidences that corroborate the findings: like common use of EPO by riders, the level of EPO found linked with the importance of the stage, the performance of Lance after his cancer : 20-30% increase of performance in less than a year.

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6 +2 (according Ashenden) samples with EPO should have banned Lance Armstrong to start next TDF !

I’ve got the video of the 2009 ITT finish at the Forum/Coliseum in Roma.
Menchov, on a very wet soggy cobblestone surface, crashes.
As quick as a flash, his Rabobank mechanic hops out of the car and gets to Menchov asap.
He gets the Russian up off the ground and on to a new bike in no time.

As this is happening RAI, pans across to the finish area and DiLuca is filmed there.
Stick thin, the Killer is looking at the camera watching Menchov.
Someone says something to him and he turns his back to the camera.
You see his neck, which almost looks transparent as he turns.
Even my wife said “that guy looks physically shattered” (which he did and she wouldn’t know her Lance Armstrongs from the water carrier finishing last each time).

If DiLuca did dope, he looked like **** at the end of the Giro.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Ashenden also confesses:
"... there is a real chance for false positives to occur if the laboratory has not followed correct procedure. But no-one knows what this chance is, because it hasn't been studied."
www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling

... which raises concerns about the possibility of false positives from testing used at that time:
www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling

And finally, a study conducted by Mujika on the efficacy of the test at that time concluded:
"Conditions of storage and transport of the urine can also seriously affect the validity and reliability of the test."
www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling


So, one cannot present only the part of the picture while ignoring the remainder. As I've already stated, until/unless a valid positive sample can be presented, it doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Flyer:
It is a matter of reading comprehension that you challenged by.

I follow your line of thinking, and I appreciate the conclusion you've reached, but it's hardly a secret within professional cycling that PED use helped fuel Armstrong (and nearly every other GT contender, for what that's worth).

I imagine that some professionals (ex and current) look at the arguments regarding doping and have a good, sad laugh. They saw what went on, they heard the stories firsthand, and they know what really went on.

I sincerely appreciate the quest for due process, but certain cyclists have abused the system for so long that I half-jokingly wonder if the burden shouldn't be on them.

This isn't life or death. It's cycling, a professional sport, and I'm not sure we need to be bringing human rights into the discussion.

It's specific on Hamilton's case, blood transfusion nothing to do with EPO testing, but as you can read it when there is a problem Ashenden can point it.

The 2005 study is well-known, it's more a problem of reading the results that was a problem...

I am sure when you are speeding and not caught by police, you were not speeding, of course but your speed were over the limits, same with Armstrong's urine not caught despite being doped with EPO.

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6 +2 (according Ashenden) samples with EPO should have banned Lance Armstrong to start next TDF !

c'mon... Armstrong's 1st win at the Tour de France was right out of left field.. no one expected a guy like Armstrong to win the Tour de France given his history to that point.. even if he hadn't come back from cancer.. the cancer thing just makes his transformation even more weird and unexpected.. that's why people have been like.. yeah, whatever... precisely because of his sudden and dramatic transformation..

use the word transfiguration, instead.

That's what all the religious types use when speaking about deities

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

I am sure when you aren't speeding, and the police think otherwise but cannot legally prove it, that doesn't change the fact that you are not speeding.

There is always the other side, and it cannot be ignored for the purpose of favoring what one wants to believe.

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Originally Posted by Flyer:
It is a matter of reading comprehension that you challenged by.

Doesn't this get round to if not convicted then the effect is the same. Sticks and stones and all that jazz

Personally speaking, I feel that if someone is demonstrated to be conclusively positive within the legal bounds of sample handling and testing, the minimum ban should be five years. In cases of blatant violations (caught with drugs in possession and tested positive), it should be for life.

Only when the consequences of being caught comfortably outweighs the risk will the prospect of doping be minimized.

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Originally Posted by Flyer:
It is a matter of reading comprehension that you challenged by.

You are a man who thinks before he writes. My compliments.
DiLuca has said that if the B sample is positive that he will retire. And also that he would be very stupid to have used the Cera after the Sella, Ricco and others were caught with controls last year. He wants also to have the samples tested by another lab.
To me, to be more convincing he needed to say that he absolutely did not use it and that there is definitely a mistake. Of course then he will probably end up like Rebellin, with egg on his face when the B sample is also positive. I am sure he and many others are boosting. To not get caught the rider must be on a well financed team with crackerjack medical support. Once again the podium of a grand tour must be redimensioned.

Let me present it differently.
An engineer buil a new speedymeter for traffic, it's a new equipment better than his precedent, he is doing the last control to verify that all is ok before selling it to police, he goes on street and test his equipment bu measuring the speed of car on the road where a speed limit of 50km/h is set.
So according you, he cannot say that a car cruising at 100km/h according his equipment is speeding!

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6 +2 (according Ashenden) samples with EPO should have banned Lance Armstrong to start next TDF !