Lance disses AC! - Page 4

am i correct in reading that you are of the opinion that contador is doped to the gills, but armstrong is as pure as the driven snow? further, am i correct in stating that you believe armstrong left the cycling life behind because doping in the peloton had become so rampant that he felt that the competitive field was no longer level?

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"Kick over the statues and the tyrants die. Wave bye bye to their heroes with a hammer."
--The Redskins, Kick Over the Statues

It was your logic, of course.
And I did not quote someone elses post, I quoted your post and your words, posted by you, on this very thread.

Here are your own words, posted by you :

Do try to keep up.

You're not very good at this - are you?

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

You laughed. far too soon.
Laughing boy.


http://www.cyclingforums.com/newrepl...eply&p=3900129

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

(Crikey!) Let me explain it to you. It was Slovakguy who first claimed Armstrong was "scared" to get the yellow jersy because he tactically would allow someone else to have it during the first week. I responded to him by saying that would mean Contador must have been too scared to go around Armstrong in the time trial to get the yellow jersy in the first week, that he bottled it.

You then pilled in and said: well what about Armstrong not going out of his way to get the yellow jersy in the first week - he must have bottled it!

Clearly you hadn't read our exchange given I was responding to that very claim. You missed the point as well - which was such talk about being scared to get the jersy is a nonsense.

Something like that.

The premise and conclusion I put forward was in response to your question which was this..
My premise is that Armstrong was never questioned for dropping his domestiques because he didnt. And I provided an analogy in the Stage 17 2004 Tour that proved my premise. With that, all you did was start dancing around that conclusion and take jabs at LA and his mom, and LA backstabbings. RED HERRING. When you have been proven wrong, that is all that is left for your lot to do. Insults and jabs and LA.

The central premise: is that JB told AC not to attack. The conclusion: By AC attacking he helped the Schlecks gain time on AK and LA.

My admitting that LA is an Ahole undercuts nothing. Its the truth and everyone knows it, including the peloton. So is Cavendish. Who cares. Sh!t dude he was eating dinner after the tour with "the greatest" Eddie Merckx. He must not be to hated in the cycling world. And Axel said this about LA:
Hats off to @lancearmstrong. Always in full control for 3rd place.He definitely earned more respect if that was at all possible.
A champion is also measured on how much he respect his teammates and opponents. You can win a race on your own not a grand tour.

too scared to go around armstrong? after the first time trial (monaco) armstrong is sucking hind tit twenty-two seconds back. then the ambush at perpignan vaults good solid teammates forever armstrong over contador. having been tipped of the break coming ahead by someone in columbia (hincapie, given the angry mood after he was held out of yellow by seconds?) ever the good sportsman, armstrong does not tip his team captain, as pronounced by the hog himself, of the coming break. spin from the camp armstrong--my what tenacity! what racing savvy! later on arcalis, contador did exactly what he did last year in the vuelta...took off uphill and dared all to catch him. spin from camp armstrong--lance was marking all the other contendors against the break. from the hog, no! no! bad alberto, you almost put us in yellow in the first week. at least alberto wasn't afraid of grabbing it. and he sent the message to lance to boot.

check out this bit of history. armstrong used a model developed by indurain--wait until the stages suit your style and strike with everything you have. up until those stages, limit the time gaps. for indurain it came to the time trials. in his defense, indurain also rode some regal mountain stages, so he wasn't just a one trick pony. the combination of bruyneel and armstrong furthered that strategy by putting together a team to burn off the climbers on the flats and control the sprinters the rest of the time. something that's made the tour the boring old lady she's become. hinault is correct when he chastises the french riders for not giving their all for this race as the italians do when contesting the giro.

just a note going further off topic, if armstrong really were as dominant as you think, he wouldn't need any tactic except the "try and catch me" tactic. instead he lurks in the shadows and waits to ambush the other riders. merckx, hinault, coppi et. al. seemed to thrive on hurting their competitors every day. those champions also seemed to want to win by the largest margin ever, every race.

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"Kick over the statues and the tyrants die. Wave bye bye to their heroes with a hammer."
--The Redskins, Kick Over the Statues

It was YOU who brought up the issue of Contador not having the "bottle", initially.

Trying to blame Slovak, is a very weak attempt at trying to absolve yourself from your own words.

And to try to misquote me - when your I cited your words is also a weak move.
It was clear that you had forgotten that you had made the accusation about Contador and his lack of bottle and when you were cited, you attempted to deflect.
Your posts undermine your excuses.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

would axel's job have something to do with it?

eddy seems to be a class act all around. i don't think he said a harsh word about landis a few years back. point being?

and i really can't allow you to trot out of the argument that the one mountain stage you cite excuses armstrong or condemns contador. as i've pointed out to you, when the gc position is at risk, armstrong rides for himself. as did contador. as did merckx. armstrong did it in all seven of his wins. the red herring is that this year it was all about team. the difficulty armstrong is having is that he couldn't convince contador to ride for team armstrong.

as for the jabs taken at armstrong, his mom (and i still think you are she), and his foibles, were he not such a publicity whore, i'd have no material to use, would i?

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"Kick over the statues and the tyrants die. Wave bye bye to their heroes with a hammer."
--The Redskins, Kick Over the Statues

LOL at 99ers.

You know nothing about the history of the sport. Actually, reading your posts you know nothing about cycling at all.

Yes, Armstrong was dominant in his number of wins, but none of his Tour wins was even remotely as dominant as wins by the likes of Hinault, Merckx, Coppi, Fignon when they were at their peaks.

i concede the point. lance is the consummate teammate. he cared only for the health and well being of his team's gc positions. i had only to look back on his record to see the truth of your words.
'99 lance's closest teammate on gc--hamilton in 13th.
'00--hamilton in 25th.
'01--heras in 15th.
'02--heras in 9th.
'03--azevedo in 5th.
'04--popovych in 12th.

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"Kick over the statues and the tyrants die. Wave bye bye to their heroes with a hammer."
--The Redskins, Kick Over the Statues

I can't speak of the victories of Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi and Fignon because I only read about those from old copies of cycling weekly from the vets in the club that I used to ride for...

Do you forget that Hinault won four of his tours against riders like Zoetemelk and Van Impe? Whilst they were good they're hardly the caliber of someone like Ulrich. When Fignon and Lemond arrived on the scene Hinault only grabbed one more Tour and that one was rather questionable (85). You could say that Lance was lucky that Ulrich has a love for the pork pies... but Ulrich was a better rider than Hinault had to face until Fignon came on the scene by which time he'd got 4 Tour wins in the bag already.

If you remember first hand all of Hinaults' tour wins you must be 50!

There's no denying that Hinault was hugely talented and his attacking style is one of the reasons why he's my favorite cyclist but he was a little too hot headed and lucky that for most of his career he was without significant challengers.

Hinaults' perchant to attack looked flamboyant during his first four wins because he could get away with it but came back to bite him in the ass in a massive way in 86... Attacking after gaining 5 minutes on the first mountain stage was cocky... attacking again on the first mountain stage in the Alps probably was the final straw and ended up with him requiring bike adjustments on the descent of the Izoard (the best bike wrenching I'd ever seen... that mechanic must have had a huge amount of faith on the guy holding his legs!) due to "tendonitis' (or so they said) before losing the jersey to LeMond on the climb to the finish on the Granon.

2004 was Armstrong just toying with everyone... You could just tell with the way he he won the three mountain stages in the Alps that he had so much left in the tank it was just silly. On the final alpine stage that he tried to gift to Landis he could have put minutes into his rivals... 2001 wasn't much different.

I wouldn't put Armstrong as the greatest rider ever due to his lack of victories in the classics but I'd put him as the best rider in the Tour de France...

... but you know as well as I, the style of racing in the Tour changed massively in the early 90s. Put it down to whatever reason you'd like but from 90/91 onwards people were attacking left and right from the gun - the days of 'taking it easy' for the first 50 miles of a stage or for most of the day on the stages between the Alps and Pyrenees had gone. Given that, how who Hinault and his dodgy knees had faired if he had to 'ride' every single one of the 20+ days in the Tour?

Tour club runs... (first couple of minutes)

... when was the last time you saw that on TV in that decade? Ahhh... the the towel on the back of the car - it makes it so much more luxurous!

Sure Lance had a marginal wins, 1999 and 2003 comes to mind but they were still wins. Yeah, I put 1999 in there only because it was the strength of his team on the stage featuring the Passage du Gois where the Postals put a 6 minute trouncing on the Banesto squad of Zulle on a flat stage. Sheer tactical brilliance and an amazing display of team strength during one of the first few stages put the foundations to his first Tour win. Seeing the Posties take a small advantage that Banesto held for many kilometers and pull it out to 6 minutes was amazing to watch. If that would have happened after Lance had got his first win it would have been interesting to see how different the reaction would have been. Banesto chased hard probably due to his 4th place in the Vuelta the previous year.

Too soon? Its never too soon to laugh at you getting picked on by rookie.

I wouldn't be surprised if Limerickman had been riding a bike longer than you'd been alive...

His GC position wasnt at risk. He had a 2:26 lead on AS. Even JB told him that. "You dont have to attack today to win the Tour de France". He merely had to sit on AS wheel and wait until the ITT knowing he would put 2 more minutes on AS.
AC clearly fvcked up and he new it the minute he looked back at Kloden. He isolated himself then the Schlecks realized his mistake and took advantage of it.
As far as me trotting out "the one mountain stage", then you go do the research and come up with a video of LA duplicating the mental error that AC made so we can analyze it. You wont find it, cause LA never made that amateur mistake of attacking a teammate and isolating himself with 2 other GC contenders. Good luck.

LMAO, and that is supposed to impress me?
And if Lim wants to stake claim to have been riding in the 60's please do. I am sure I can put together an entire comedy routine on that one.