3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat? - Page 3

On 19 May 2004 13:46:26 GMT, pbwalther@aol.com (Pbwalther) wrote:

>The thing is that you can do a pot load of exercise and not
>burn much fat. Now, assuming burning 50 calories per mile,
>your 3,000 calories would be 42 lbs of fat. However, many
>people up their food consumption in response to exercise
>and that is probably what you have done.

You lost me here. 42 lbs of fat? huh, who what? Typo?

>Now, one can lose a considerable amount of weight
>exercising and being prudent with diet. I did a 2 week
>bicycle tour in the rockies. We did an average of 75 miles
>per day with quite a bit of climbing and then walking
>around seeing things on top of that. I made sure I ate
>plenty of complex carbs and vegetables to replace my
>glycogen each day. I ate some sweets also on the rest stops
>and took ate a modest amount of fats and meats. After I got
>back, I was amazed that I had lost 10 lbs in 14 days. So it
>can be done.

It would be neat to try that and to see what the body
craved. I find that even if I stay on a LC diet occasionally
I'll get the urge to eat something off plan. Once day I ate
nothing but apples. Must have eaten about 10 of them. Of
course we were visiting an apple orchard, heh, but the next
day I was back on LC no problem.

The trick is you have to experiment and find what works
for you. If I was going to be biking 75 miles per day I
might indeed convert to a complex carb diet, and would
definitely suppliment with M&Ms or Sweet tarts in addition
to the LC diet.

Did you maintain the loss of the 10 lbs after you came back?
Was it really fat, i.e., did your waistband feel loose?

>Of course, many people gained weight on the tour. They did
>this by having an extra meal during the day consisting of a
>big burger, fries, and a large sundae.

Yeah, upping the fat along with sugar during the meal is a
recipe for diet disaster. ;-) Plenty of high caloric food
plus lots of insulin spiking in the susceptible person. When
I was a teenager, this kind of eating would not have made a
difference - I could eat everything in sight.

-B

On Wed, 19 May 2004 13:59:50 GMT, BanditManDan <dballagh@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Wow does this sound familiar. My story has been almost
>identical to yours except I managed to lose the weight with
>no problems. When I started I was 260lbs @ 6'1", eighteen
>months later I was down to 170lbs. How did I do it??
>
>I basically did what other have already suggested . I began
>to keep track of my exercise and food intake using
>http://www.fitday.comwww.fitday.com. Another very confusing
>think for me was how much caloric intake I should eat
>daily. What I discovered was that "ALL" the experts
>(including the FDA) over estimated that daily caloric
>requirement just as your friend has done. 4000 calories is
>WAY too high for just about everybody. What I would suggest
>is to reduce your daily calories for one week and see if
>you begin to drop weight. Continue to do this until you
>start to drop 1 to 2 pounds a week and then just leave your
>diet alone.
>
>In the end it really is just an input/output issue.
>Calories in and calories out. Simple.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Dan.

Cool. Good job! Yeah, tracking your food is pretty much an
essential.

I figure most ppl eat about twice what they really need.

I lost 20lbs in a month just by getting into induction,
losing the carb cravings and eating fish, turkey, nuts and
green beans, cheese and eggs, two small meals a day, plus
about 3 snacks.

-B

Terry Morse wrote:
:: "curt" wrote:
::
::: If you just want to really lose weight you can go low
::: carb all the way, you don't have to watch you fat
::: intake. When people read that, it scares them. I am not
::: sure why.
::
:: Reading "you don't have to watch you(r) fat intake"
:: doesn't scare
:: me. It makes me laugh. If P.T. Barnum were still alive, I
:: think he'd also find the humor in it.

Where is the humor in it? I've lost 130 lbs on a low carb
diet without worrying about fat intake other than to not
eat too many calories. And I have improved blood lipids to
show for it.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 10:15:42 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>:: But don't stop with just these suggestions. Get the
>:: bible "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald, and
>:: "Protein Power" by Eades and learn the facts yourself.
>
>Right. I recommend Lyle's book, but PP is great too (better
>than Atkins on the science).

The thing is, you (the OP) can not just go by what ppl say.
You have to understand the 'science' behind it. It's all
based on insulin response.

It doesn't mean you have to be committed and disciplined.
For me, though, being on LC allows me to 'intellectually'
take control of my eating. Otherwise, being a carb addict, I
could eat a horse made of pizza twice a day. <g>

-B

"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> The story thus far....
>
> 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
> in citizens
class
> triathlons.
>
> Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
> no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
>
> Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
> started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000
> miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000
> miles for 5 pounds?!
>
> My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
> rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
> miles - all solo. My computer puts my average
speed
> for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
> particular ups&downs
of
> the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right
> about 75% of max (although that can vary, usually on the
> high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and
> mean while I ride, but when I get home I
wonder
> who that fat guy in the mirror is!
>
> I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
> I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
> 2500 - 3000. One friend who is
a
> "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
> Although she readily admits she doesn't specialize in
> athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how she describes her
> typical client), she says that with my activity level my
> BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of
> calories needed to just maintain my weight! Therefore she
> thinks my body thinks it's being starved and refuses to
> let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will
> move away from this starvation reflex and start shedding
> pounds. She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to fat
> because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a
> recipe for the BONK to me).
>
> Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
> felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
> just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving
> sugar after the ride.
>
> Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
> Are there any coaching services online that could help
> customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
> afford to hire a coach.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>

Cycling alone won't do it. It's non-weight bearing. If
you're going to rely heavily on cycling, you'll need to
do MUCH more of it (3,000 miles may sound like a lot to
you. I've done 5,300 so far this year). You'll also need
to do some intense rides each week. Don't just go through
the motions of pedaling. You're going to need to do some
hard riding.

All that may not be enough. Adding a cross-training activity
would help. I walk in the mornings and I do 15 minutes of
core strength exercises.

Most important of all is diet. Fat is fat. Keep it to a
minimum. I had a cholestrol problem a couple of years ago
(despite a ton of riding). I simply stopped eating anything
that had any cholesterol at all. I lost 12 pounds in 6 weeks
and lowered my cholestrol 60 points. Now I watch that AND
saturated fat to keep losing weight.

Good luck!

Bob C.

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, "Doug Cook"
:: <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
::: Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids,
::: mortgage, no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
:::
::: Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
::: cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek,
::: and started riding again. Now 10 months and close to
::: 3000 miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come
::: on! 3000 miles for 5 pounds?!
::
:: No. 3000 miles for good physical and spiritual health.
::
::: My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
::: struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
::: rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
::: miles - all solo. My computer puts my average speed for
::: these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
::: particular ups&downs of the ride. My HRM says my average
::: rate is usually right about 75% of max (although that
::: can vary, usually on the high side, when the ride has
::: climbing). I feel lean and mean while I ride,
::
:: This tells the story well. I wish I was as fast as you. I
:: did that kind of speed yesterday, for a short group
:: ride...and that's a new personal record.
::
::: but when I get home I wonder who that fat guy in the
::: mirror is!
::
:: He's a healthy guy who has fun exercising.

A fit guy who has fun exercising. Health != fit.

::
::: I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days
::: that I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right
::: between 2500 - 3000. One friend who is a "wellness"
::: expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*. Although she
::: readily
::
:: I'm younger and smaller than you, and I can barely
:: survive a 3000 calorie day. I'm a bit abnormal for that,
:: I guess.

Most people don't need any where near 3000 kcals per day.

::
::: admits she doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly
::: couch potato" is how she describes her typical client),
::: she says that with my activity level my BMR is 5300...
::: as she explained it that's the number of calories needed
::: to just maintain my weight! Therefore she thinks my body
::: thinks it's being
::
:: 5300 sounds strong; but she could be right. 2500 to 3000
:: certainly sounds insufficient; the weight should fly off,
:: except...well, see what I say at the end regarding
:: optimum weight..

I'd bet money she's wrong. There is no way this guy is in
starvation mode while doing all that exercise. In the so-
called starvation mode, the body shuts things down in an
attempt to lower energy requirements. With all of this
riding, if his body did that, he'd be a mess because he'd be
overtrained after 10 months...

::
::: starved and refuses to let go of the fat. She thinks by
::: eating MORE the body will move away from this starvation
::: reflex and start shedding pounds.
::
:: Possible. I've heard such before.

Nonsense. If he followed her advice he'd gain weight.

::
::: She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
::: morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to
::: fat because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like
::: a recipe for the BONK to me).
::
:: Try it, if you can, and figure out how far you can go
:: before bonking. Do only that much, then gradually raise
:: it up. This will certainly get your body running well for
:: the rest of your day, too.

More nonsense. I follow a low-carb diet...that means I'm
always low on glycogen. Yet, I always ride in the morning
with only some coffee in me. Unless he is pushing his limits
and actually exercising anaerobically, he won't bonk out.

::
:: You might also try other strategies, such as rides where
:: you are insufficiently fueled, but not completely
:: starved; this would be under the heading of "using a
:: little glycogen to burn a lot of fat".
::
::: Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died!
::: I felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding
::: with just water (no sport drink), and found myself
::: craving sugar after the ride.
::
:: Sounds like me when below 4000 calories per day.
::
::: Any experts lurking out there that would like to
::: comment? Are there any
::
:: Just self-proclaimed demi-experts.



::
::: Any thoughts would be appreciated.
::
:: 1. CaloriesIn < CaloriesOut == NetLoss. This must happen
:: in time, even given the 'starvation-mode' reaction of
:: saving fat. Try really counting calories in and out
:: for a week and see what you get; 10 months of
:: insufficient calories should lose more than 4 pounds.

Which means it was not 10 months of insufficient calories.

::
:: 2. Health != weight. You're probably pretty damned
:: healthy from all that riding, regardless of your
:: weight.

Health!=fit!= weight.

He's fit (bicycle fit) for sure. I can't comment on his
health since there's not my info here on that.

::
:: 3. Your body may just be programmed for this weight at
:: this age. If this is your body's preferred weight, who
:: are you to argue with your body? Listen to your body!

Well, you may have a point there. At this weight he can be
both fit and healthy, so getting trim may just be a result
of societal bias and norms.

::
:: A couple years ago, I dieted and rode (mostly dieted;
:: couldn't ride while feeling so hungry) some 40 pounds
:: away, putting me at the top of the recommended weight
:: range. I felt terrible. I don't know if I was healthy,
:: but I sure didn't feel so until I slowly got most of
:: those 40 pounds back. I am at my optimum weight, books
:: and charts and doctors be damned.

True, to an extent. If he has a belly then perhaps losing
some of it might help him ride even better. Let's face it,
lugging around fat is going to slow you down.

::
:: Oh, and that said, here's one other thing: See the damned
:: doctors! Not just your friend; go to a general
:: practitioner to find out if something is _wrong_ with
:: you, maybe a disease. Let the GP recommend anybody he
:: thinks you should see.
:: --
:: Rick Onanian

Michael Libby wrote:
:: On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, Doug Cook wrote:
::
::: Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
::: cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek,
::: and started riding again. Now 10 months and close to
::: 3000 miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come
::: on! 3000 miles for 5 pounds?!
:::
::: My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
::: struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
::: rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
::: miles - all solo. My computer puts my average speed for
::: these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
::: particular ups&downs of the ride. My HRM says my average
::: rate is usually right about 75% of max (although that
::: can vary, usually on the high side, when the ride has
::: climbing). I feel lean and mean while I ride, but when I
::: get home I wonder who that fat guy in the mirror is!
::
:: 3000 miles in ten months in 300 miles a month. That's
:: only about 10 miles a day. At 16 MPH you are riding for
:: 38 minutes a day on average. Whether that's "enough"
:: exercise depends on how much other exercise you get. But
:: just for the sake of comparison, I get more than that
:: just commuting to work, doing errands on the weekend, and
:: throwing in a weekly joyride of one to two and a half
:: hours (I average 15 miles a day at similar speeds).
::
:: As someone else said, cycling is a very efficient use of
:: energy, so this doesn't burn as many calories as you
:: might think. At my height/weight your 38 minutes of
:: cycling vigorously would only burn 465 calories. You can
:: find out for yourself how much that would burn at this
:: calorie counter I found on the web:
:: http://www.caloriesperhour.com/index_burn.html
::
:: What I found interesting with that calculator was going
:: through my whole day (all 24 hours including sleep) and
:: seeing just how much I was burning in the rest of my
:: life. A lot less than I thought.
::
:: Is it possible that you are compensating for the
:: exercise by actually doing less other active stuff? You
:: know, "Well, I've already ridden my bike a bunch
:: today... so I think I'll let the wife walk the dog."
:: That sort of thing.
::

It's going to be hard to do a lot of extra stuff after
riding for 70 miles. Most people don't do that much work in
an entire week. Remember, this guy is around 275lbs.

:: Then you have to be very careful to add up calorie
:: intake. In my case, one big surprise was the morning bowl
:: of granola-- certainly healthy from a fiber and whole
:: grains perspective, but a calorie disaster in the amounts
:: I eat. One serving on this stuff is about half a cup. Ha!
:: Those "serving size" amount in nutritional information
:: are a joke. You have to be very careful with them when
:: adding up your daily caloric intake. I've seen so many
:: bottles of juice or bags of chips or whatever labeled as
:: two, even three, servings, that it almost seems
:: deceptive.
::
:: Only once you have accurate estimates of your calorie
:: intake and calorie expenditure can you possibly decide
:: where to go next. Obviously if you aren't losing weight
:: you either have to eat less or exercise more. If you are
:: really eating between 2000 and 3000 calories a day, I'd
:: try to increase activity before trying to eat less food.

I wouldn't. 3000 kcals is a lot of food. Depending on his
age and LBM, that might be a lot. And keep in mind that is
what he got on the days it bothered to count. He might be
eating well over 3000 kcals per day. hence, he really needs
to track what he eats and start limiting calories.

::
:: Personally I'm not big on diets that are low-fat or low-
:: carb. It seems to me the body needs a healthy balance
:: (and that the specific balance is different person to
:: person).

How does one define a "healthy balance?"

I would definitely skip the
:: soda pop, beer, candy, cheese, red meats (of course, I'm
:: vegetarian so I simply avoid all meats), and definitely
:: order baked, broiled, grilled foods over fried,
:: especially deep-fried. I'm also a big fan of whole
:: grains, refined grains lose a lot of their vitamins,
:: minerals, and proteins during processing.
::
:: Since I started biking regularly a few months ago, I've
:: lost over 10 pounds, and I changed my diet very little
:: overall. In fact, at first I was downing 600 calories a
:: day worth of protein powder mixed in soy milk to help my
:: muscles recover from riding (not sure if even that was
:: all that necessary). Now I save that for after rides of
:: an hour or more and eat pretty much like I have for a
:: long time, except for the soda pop.

Obviously, for the OP, who already said he eats sensibly,
what worked for you isn't going to work for him.

Roger Zoul wrote:

> Rick Onanian wrote:

> ::: She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> ::: morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to
> ::: fat because the glycogen stores will be low (sound
> ::: like a recipe for the BONK to me).
> ::
> :: Try it, if you can, and figure out how far you can go
> :: before bonking. Do only that much, then gradually raise
> :: it up. This will certainly get your body running well
> :: for the rest of your day, too.
>
> More nonsense. I follow a low-carb diet...that means I'm
> always low on glycogen. Yet, I always ride in the morning
> with only some coffee in me. Unless he is pushing his
> limits and actually exercising anaerobically, he won't
> bonk out.

FWIW, you don't have to go anaerobic to deplete your muscle
glycogen. Simply riding at a lower cadence with the same
power output will accelerate the depletion rate. Glycogen
usage is tied to muscle effort.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Roger Zoul wrote:

> Terry Morse wrote:
> ::
> :: Reading "you don't have to watch you(r) fat intake"
> :: doesn't scare
> :: me. It makes me laugh. If P.T. Barnum were still alive,
> :: I think he'd also find the humor in it.
>
> Where is the humor in it? I've lost 130 lbs on a low carb
> diet without worrying about fat intake other than to not
> eat too many calories. And I have improved blood lipids to
> show for it.

The humor is that it is a ridiculous statemet. If you eat
too much food, no matter what it's made of, you will gain
weight. The statement should correctly read "you don't have
to watch your fat intake, as long as you don't eat too much
of it". Wow, there's a revelation!
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Wed, 19 May 2004 10:15:42 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
::
::::: But don't stop with just these suggestions. Get the
::::: bible "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald, and
::::: "Protein Power" by Eades and learn the facts yourself.
:::
::: Right. I recommend Lyle's book, but PP is great too
::: (better than Atkins on the science).
::
:: The thing is, you (the OP) can not just go by what ppl
:: say. You have to understand the 'science' behind it. It's
:: all based on insulin response.
::
:: It doesn't mean you have to be committed and
:: disciplined. For me, though, being on LC allows me to
:: 'intellectually' take control of my eating. Otherwise,
:: being a carb addict, I could eat a horse made of pizza
:: twice a day. <g>

Me too. Actually, there are many who fall into the same
boat. Understanding the science of it will allow you to
understand why you can pick up 10 lbs of weight over a
weekend, but then lose it quickly the following week once
you resume LC eating.

my two cents worth...

My guess is that for the 15 to 30 mile rides, you are only
burning 400 to 700 calories (a guestimate). If you're taking
in 3000 calories (or more) it will be tough to lose weight.

Good luck and keep them miles rolling!

Brad

"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> The story thus far....
>
> 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
> in citizens
class
> triathlons.
>
> Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
> no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
>
> Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
> started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000
> miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000
> miles for 5 pounds?!
>
> My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
> rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
> miles - all solo. My computer puts my average
speed
> for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
> particular ups&downs
of
> the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right
> about 75% of max (although that can vary, usually on the
> high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and
> mean while I ride, but when I get home I
wonder
> who that fat guy in the mirror is!
>
> I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
> I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
> 2500 - 3000. One friend who is
a
> "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
> Although she readily admits she doesn't specialize in
> athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how she describes her
> typical client), she says that with my activity level my
> BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of
> calories needed to just maintain my weight! Therefore she
> thinks my body thinks it's being starved and refuses to
> let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will
> move away from this starvation reflex and start shedding
> pounds. She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to fat
> because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a
> recipe for the BONK to me).
>
> Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
> felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
> just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving
> sugar after the ride.
>
> Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
> Are there any coaching services online that could help
> customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
> afford to hire a coach.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.

O
>I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
>I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
>2500 - 3000. One friend who is a "wellness" expert suggests
>I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
I have had this problem too. when I found the right spot and
ate more I started loosing far more. Now I have to redo it
and I am trying to find the sweet spot. pretty pathetic to
have to eat more to loose (G)

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes
at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For
prices and ordering instructions.

Doug Cook wrote:

> The story thus far....
>
> 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
> in citizens class triathlons.
>
> Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
> no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
>
> Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
> started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000
> miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000
> miles for 5 pounds?!
>
> My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
> rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
> miles - all solo. My computer puts my average speed for
> these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the particular
> ups&downs of the ride. My HRM says my average rate is
> usually right about 75% of max (although that can vary,
> usually on the high side, when the ride has climbing). I
> feel lean and mean while I ride, but when I get home I
> wonder who that fat guy in the mirror is!
>
> I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
> I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
> 2500 - 3000.

That still may be more than you need. Plus, what about the
days you're not tracking? A 500 calorie difference a day
equals a pound a week -- one way or the other. The days
you're burning more than you eat are probably being offset
by the ones when you're not paying attention. You may very
well be eating more on those days without realizing it.

> One friend who is a "wellness" expert suggests I'm not
> eating *ENOUGH*. Although she readily admits she doesn't
> specialize in athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how she
> describes her typical client), she says that with my
> activity level my BMR is 5300... as she explained it
> that's the number of calories needed to just maintain my
> weight! Therefore she thinks my body thinks it's being
> starved and refuses to let go of the fat. She thinks by
> eating MORE the body will move away from this starvation
> reflex and start shedding pounds. She also suggested
> riding easy first thing in the morning BEFORE breakfast so
> the body has to switch to fat because the glycogen stores
> will be low (sound like a recipe for the BONK to me).

All this is nonsense, and probably based on the typical kind
of pseudo-science most of these pop nutritionists and
"experts" buy into. First of all, the same principles apply
to athletes as everyone else. Second, there's no way you
have a BMR of 5300 -- even mountaineers who repeatedly hump
50 LB loads up 3000', 45 deg slopes don't need that much
food. Tour de France riders hardly need that much.

> Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
> felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
> just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving
> sugar after the ride.

This is a red flag to me -- you're a carb addict. Most
Americans are. So lay off the simple carbs! Learn what
complex carbs really are, and learn to eat them in proper
moderation. Do this for a month, and the cravings will go
away. I'm not a fan of contemporary low carb diets, but
there's a grain of truth in them along with all the pseudo-
science hokum. If you want to read a diet book, look into
the Zone Diet or the South Beach diet. Or eat like a
diabetic is supposed to, even if you're not one. (You may be
-- get that checked.)

> Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
> Are there any coaching services online that could help
> customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
> afford to hire a coach.

This doesn't have to be expensive or inconvenient. One of my
friends is using a coach who works online. You just plug in
your eating and riding stats, plus a few other things, and
get recommendations every few days by email or phone. The
cost is less than, say, a couple of meals out a month. I can
get you the info if you're interested.

Matt O.

>Well, for much of human history people were lean indeed on
>a diet of complex carbs, mainly in the form of grains,
>vegetables and very little animal protein. It is quite easy
>to have a diet like that and be quite lean.

humans only started eating grains when we learned to
cultivate. we did not evolve eating grains.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes
at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For
prices and ordering instructions.

I'm sorry to upset you, but the low carb/high protein diet
is just that, a fad. Also, the 1950's were the Golden-Age of
fad diets so it's no surprise that this was spawned from
that era. This is an example of our society's ongoing search
for the "quick-fix". It will continue to be popular until
the next mass marketed diet craze comes along. Carbohydrates
are critical to every day body functions. Without them the
body has a hard time breaking down complex proteins into the
amino acids it needs, especially those found in vegetables.
Any vegetarian can confirm that. Their carbohydrate intake
levels are usually higher than the average meat-eater yet
they stay healthy and maintain weight. These low-carb diets
tell people to avoid starchy fruits and vegetables like
carrots, potatoes, bananas, beans, and corn, all of which
are packed with vitamins, minerals, trace elements, and
fiber that are vital to good health. Perhaps the problem is
that the people who practice these diets do not understand
what carbohydrates are. There are many different types which
are broken down into two basic categories, complex and
simple. The simple carbs are the refined sugars and
starches. To the body they are the equivelant of jet fuel
and should be eaten in very low levels. These are also the
group of carbs that diabetics are mainly concerned with
since their bodies do not produce enough insulin to
efficiently break them down. Complex carbs are found in all
plant based foods that have not been tampered with by us.
Their longer and more complex "chains" provide the body with
a steady energy supply as well as many of the complex
proteins, vitimins, and minerals required for proper
cellular function. Did you know that some complex
carbohydrates actually require more calories to break them
down than they provide the body. This, in part, is why even
sedentary vegetarians can maintain their weight.

As a bodybuilder, it is essential that you understand how
your body works and uses the food you put in it or you're
wasting your time. Several weeks before a competition, most
bodybuilders will reduce their carbohydrate and fluid levels
to a bare minimum. This is to reduce body fat to a very low
level and make the skin thin and taught, allowing more
muscle to be seen. This is only done for short periods
because there's a problem. Because fat stores contain little
or no proteins, vitamins, or minerals the body will start to
scavenge what in needs from muscle tissue and internal
organs. This is basicly what you are doing to your body when
you deprive it of complex carbohydrates. No one yet knows
what the affect these diets may have long term. You could be
doing irreversible damage to your body by following these
fads. This is also the reason most of these diets fail. When
you deprive your body of something it needs it sends you
signals in the form of powerful cravings. For most people
these cravings become too much and they binge to satisfy
them, eventually gaining all the weight back and then some.
This is the body's way of protecting itself should you
decide to do something stupid like this again. This, in a
nutshell, is why these fad diets don't work and can be
dangerous.

The human body is a magnificently complex machine. How your
body handles carbohydrates and other foods was determined by
your parents, your genetic makeup. Everyone is different and
must fine tune their diet and lifestyle to themselves. Be
healthy in body and spirit.

One final note - Disagree with me if you will but if you are
going to insult me, please have the decency to improve your
vocabulary and spelling to at least mask your apparent
ignorance.

Take care all & keep the faith - CHRIS

curt <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:T7Hqc.782$TY1.707@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
>
> > Diet - Again, with your body type, a big obsticle is
> > going to be your
slow
> > metabolic rate. Try to avoid simple carbohydrates
> > (refined sugars, white breads, etc.) DO NOT do the low-
> > carb/high protein fad diets. They are
very
> > unhealthy and any weight loss is temporary. Forget the
> > three big meals a
> day
> > thing and eat smaller meals more often and most
> > importantly, learn to recognize when you are satisfied,
> > not full! Other than that just try to
> eat
> > a balanced diet and drink lots of water.
>
> I would hardly call low carbohydrate diets a fad. They
> have been around since the 50's that I know of. They are
> just in the news a lot because people have wised up. A low
> carb diet is much more than any fad. It actually works.
> You would need to at least read the Atkins book to have
an
> understanding of how it works, but I can tell from your
> post you know nothing about it and just call it a fad
> diet. You also have lots to learn about low carbohydrate
> diets. Who do you think you are calling them unhealthy? Do
> you know there are diabetics on this diet and now can go
off
> there medications? Do you know there are plenty of people
> that have lost over 100 pounds and they keep it off with
> their knowledge of low carb?
>
> I suggest you stick to your X armature body building
> status and no try and be a Doctor or nutrition.
>
> If I was the original poster, the first thing I would do
> is cut the carbs. What is funny, you suggested the same
> thing, but you just don't like the works low carb.
>
> Enjoy, Curt