3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?

The story thus far....

12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing in
citizens class triathlons.

Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage, no
hair, sedentary, 279lbs.

Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000 miles
later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000 miles
for 5 pounds?!

My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
miles - all solo. My computer puts my average speed for
these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the particular
ups&downs of the ride. My HRM says my average rate is
usually right about 75% of max (although that can vary,
usually on the high side, when the ride has climbing). I
feel lean and mean while I ride, but when I get home I
wonder who that fat guy in the mirror is!

I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
2500 - 3000. One friend who is a "wellness" expert suggests
I'm not eating *ENOUGH*. Although she readily admits she
doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is
how she describes her typical client), she says that with my
activity level my BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's
the number of calories needed to just maintain my weight!
Therefore she thinks my body thinks it's being starved and
refuses to let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the
body will move away from this starvation reflex and start
shedding pounds. She also suggested riding easy first thing
in the morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to
fat because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a
recipe for the BONK to me).

Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving sugar
after the ride.

Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
Are there any coaching services online that could help
customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't afford
to hire a coach.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, "Doug Cook"
<dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>

No answers, but a congratulations! You sound like you are in
good shape, getting better. A nice comeback.

Do you still look the same? Muscle is denser than fat, so
people often don't lose weight as they shift from fat to
muscle, but the body takes on a different look.

There was a recent thread in here on 'The Big Fat Con Story'
-Mike Kruger- May 11- you can probably find it in google if
it is off your server. The first paragraph-

"The Guardian has an excerpt from a new book by Paul Campos,
"The Obesity Myth". The excerpt is titled "The big fat con
story." http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1200-
549,00.html "

You might look over that article.

I'll take being healthy over being slim if I can't
have both.

"Dan Daniel" <ddandan.remove@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2vola0d7c2dsmk4fs5v604o2rjkrk4sjsp@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, "Doug Cook"
> <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> >
>
> No answers, but a congratulations! You sound like you are
> in good shape, getting better. A nice comeback.
>
> Do you still look the same? Muscle is denser than fat, so
> people often don't lose weight as they shift from fat to
> muscle, but the body takes on a different look.

No, I haven't changed shape. I should have mentioned that I
carry almost all the weight around my waist. Personally, I
think I'm rather oddly shaped. Chest and butt look normal...
just a big fat gut in front. I've thought about the muscle-for-
fat theory, but my waistline hasn't changed, and my clothes
don't fit any differently. That's why I'm pretty sure my
body just doesn't touch it's fat stores.

I've read the thread about the fat fraud, but I am fat. I've
got this big inner tube around my middle that interferes
with getting into a nice aero position, puts unnecessary
stress on my butt in the saddle (the biggest reason I don't
ride longer), and I'm scared to even think about what I
could do on the climbs if it were gone.

On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, "Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>My HRM says my average rate is usually right about 75% of
>max (although that can vary, usually on the high side,
>when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and mean while I
>ride, but when I get home I wonder who that fat guy in the
>mirror is!

What worked/works for me is that I quit eating sugar, bread,
and pasta/potatoes. I switched to fish, chicken, lean beef,
green leafy veggies, cut back on dairy. Read Eades' book on
Low carb 'Protein Power'.

You also don't say when you eat, or what you eat. Consider
eating smaller meals, but more often, don't eat after 7pm,
drink plenty of water.

Can you suppliment the riding with some jogging, perhaps 3
miles a day, 3 days a week? What about some bodyweight
exercises pushups, squats, pullups? Weight training? Sounds
like a lot, but the biking is very efficient and you may not
be taxing the system sufficiently to burn up the calories. I
doubt if you're in any kind of starvation mode eating 2500-
3000 calories!!

Congrats on the fitness you've achieved so far.

-B

In article <htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net>,
Doug Cook <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
>I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
>2500 - 3000. One friend who is a "wellness" expert suggests
>I'm not eating *ENOUGH*. Although she readily admits she
>doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is
>how she describes her typical client), she says that with
>my activity level my BMR is 5300... as she explained it
>that's the number of calories needed to just maintain my
>weight! Therefore she thinks my body thinks it's being
>starved and refuses to let go of the fat. She thinks by
>eating MORE the body will move away from this starvation
>reflex and start shedding pounds. She also suggested riding
>easy first thing in the morning BEFORE breakfast so the
>body has to switch to fat because the glycogen stores will
>be low (sound like a recipe for the BONK to me).
>
>Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
>felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
>just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving sugar
>after the ride.
>
>Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
>Are there any coaching services online that could help
>customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
>afford to hire a coach.

If you have health insurance you can probably get covered
for a visit to a dietician, that is the direction I would
go. The RD will most likely have you write down what you eat
for a few days and then make suggestions.

If you're feeling good most of the time then you're probably
eating enough.

--Paul

On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, "Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
>struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
>rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
>miles - all solo.

Re-reading your message, I can offer one overall suggestion.
Track your mileage, food intake, type of food, waistline
measurement and weight on a spreadsheet. Weigh yourself
every 2nd or 3rd day.

You may be surprised just how much you're eating, how much
you're eating at one meal, how much sugar and starch you're
eating, and may be overestimating the mileage. If you're
ranging from 95 to 190 miles during the week that sounds
inconsistent. It may be that you're unknowingly sabotaging
your efforts, by binging during the low mileage weeks.
Perhaps you can smooth it out more, and get 150 miles per
week but ride everyday. AM rides are good, but if you can do
some easy jogging in the AM that might be better, then ride
in the evening, and don't eat after 7-8pm.

I went from 270ish to about 200 in 8 months just by cutting
out the sugar and starch and at the time, b/c of an injury
did virtually no exercising.

At this point I had gained back some of that, but have lost
an additional 30lbs in the last three months just by again
cutting out the carbs and sugar, but in addition I'm biking
20 miles/day 100-110 miles a week.

The reason for the careful tracking is to discover
what trends are working for you, and to help you
uncover some things you may be doing unconsciously,
either underestimating or overestimating your efforts
or food intake.

-B

Count calories. For every cumulative 3500 you take in in
excess of your needs, you gain a pound of fat. Conversely,
for every 3500 shy of your needs, you lose a pound of fat.

Just write down the calories of everything you eat and
add them up.

Reduce them until you lose weight at the rate you want, two
pounds a week is fine.

Generally if you exercise, you eat more, so it's not a
weight loser alone.
--
Ron Hardin rhhardin@mindspring.com

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Hey Doug,
I'm not a health professional but as an ex-amateur bodybuilder I have done a
great deal of research on this subject. I might be able to help you answer
your question as to why you're still fat. First, your life-style. You are
older, married, have children, bills, and all the stress that goes with it.
Excessive stress alone can be enough to wreck a body. Body type - there are
three basic body types. From your description you fall into what's called
the meso-morphic body type. This just means you have a large frame with
heavy muscle mass. This body type can easily pack on muscle but
unfortunately you also store fat easily, too. Then, there is your choice of
exercise. Bicycling is an excellent form of cardiovascular exercise but does
little to increase overall lean muscle mass. This is mostly because
bicycling is a non-weight bearing type of activity. The only way to increase
lean muscle mass is with some type of weight bearing activity. A simple form
of this is walking. I'm not knocking cycling, I commute to work every day.
Here are a few things that might help you lose some pounds:

Life-style - With family, bills, work, you're gonna have
stress. Find simple positive ways to deal with it that
work for you.

Body type - With your body type you should accept the fact
that, unless you are willing to be very disciplined with
your diet and work-outs, you are going to carry some extra
weight. Not a big deal. With your current activity level it
sounds like you're in pretty good shape. If you add some
callisthenics a few days a week (push-ups, sit-ups,
stretches, etc.) to help build up lean muscle you'll
probably notice a difference, too.

Diet - Again, with your body type, a big obsticle is going
to be your slow metabolic rate. Try to avoid simple
carbohydrates (refined sugars, white breads, etc.) DO NOT do
the low-carb/high protein fad diets. They are very unhealthy
and any weight loss is temporary. Forget the three big meals
a day thing and eat smaller meals more often and most
importantly, learn to recognize when you are satisfied, not
full! Other than that just try to eat a balanced diet and
drink lots of water.

Unless you are at your doctors office, stay away from
scales. As your lean muscle mass increases you might
actually gain a few pounds before your body starts burning
up fat reserves. Nothing discourages people more than
scales. Charting your progress can help you stay on track,
too. Educate yourself about nutrition and learn to read food
labels. Sounds silly but most people really don't understand
them such as serving size, types of fats, fats versus
calories, sugars versus carbs. It's all about individual
fine tuning. What works for the guy next to you may not work
for you and vise versa. With knowledge and practice it's a
piece of cake. I hope I've been of some help. Keep the faith
and take care - CHRIS

Doug Cook <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> The story thus far....
>
> 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
> in citizens
class
> triathlons.
>
> Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
> no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
>
> Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
> started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000
> miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000
> miles for 5 pounds?!
>
> My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
> rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
> miles - all solo. My computer puts my average
speed
> for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
> particular ups&downs
of
> the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right
> about 75% of max (although that can vary, usually on the
> high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and
> mean while I ride, but when I get home I
wonder
> who that fat guy in the mirror is!
>
> I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
> I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
> 2500 - 3000. One friend who is
a
> "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
> Although she readily admits she doesn't specialize in
> athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how she describes her
> typical client), she says that with my activity level my
> BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of
> calories needed to just maintain my weight! Therefore she
> thinks my body thinks it's being starved and refuses to
> let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will
> move away from this starvation reflex and start shedding
> pounds. She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to fat
> because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a
> recipe for the BONK to me).
>
> Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
> felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
> just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving
> sugar after the ride.
>
> Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
> Are there any coaching services online that could help
> customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
> afford to hire a coach.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I don't want to sound harsh, but something is evidently
wrong with your diet. You're burning calories by doing your
cardio, so you must be consuming more calories than you
burn. Have you tried incorporating strength training? You'll
burn more calories with more muscle.

Nonsense on not eating enough. You need to eat less. i
suggest you use fitday.com to track everything you eat.
Limit calories to about 2200 per day. You may want to try
low-carb if you have problems with hunger/appetite.

If you're not tracking calories everyday, then you can't be
sure you're not eating much more than you think you are.
Riding will no doubt increase your appetite, especially when
you do 50 to 70 miles. My guess is that you're probably
overeating mostly on weekends.

You may want to make all your rides be about the same
distance, just to normalize the appetite they stimulate so
you can better control eating.

I suggest you add weight training to your exercise routine.

Doug Cook wrote:
:: The story thus far....
::
:: 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
:: in citizens class triathlons.
::
:: Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
:: no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
::
:: Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
:: cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
:: started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000
:: miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000
:: miles for 5 pounds?!
::
:: My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
:: struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
:: rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
:: miles - all solo. My computer puts my average speed for
:: these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
:: particular ups&downs of the ride. My HRM says my average
:: rate is usually right about 75% of max (although that can
:: vary, usually on the high side, when the ride has
:: climbing). I feel lean and mean while I ride, but when I
:: get home I wonder who that fat guy in the mirror is!
::
:: I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
:: I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
:: 2500 - 3000. One friend who is a "wellness" expert
:: suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*. Although she readily
:: admits she doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly
:: couch potato" is how she describes her typical client),
:: she says that with my activity level my BMR is 5300... as
:: she explained it that's the number of calories needed to
:: just maintain my weight! Therefore she thinks my body
:: thinks it's being starved and refuses to let go of the
:: fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will move away
:: from this starvation reflex and start shedding pounds.
:: She also suggested riding easy first thing in the morning
:: BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to fat because
:: the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a recipe for
:: the BONK to
:: me).
::
:: Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died!
:: I felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
:: just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving
:: sugar after the ride.
::
:: Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
:: Are there any coaching services online that could help
:: customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
:: afford to hire a coach.
::
:: Any thoughts would be appreciated.

You should buy that Atkins book. You don't have to follow
it, but you should understand the principles of it. It will
be a very big help in losing weight. I would suspect if you
cut your carb intake to below 100 a day, you would lose 30
pounds in two or so months with your exercise. That is a
guess, but you being a male and riding a bicycle, you will
drop fast most likely.

If you don't want to get serious about losing weight that
much, then try and cut the carbs back at dinner time at
least. No potatoes, pasta, sugar and drink plenty of water.
An example of a good dinner would be fish and salad with
dressing or some kind of meat with green leafy vegetables.
If you just want to really lose weight you can go low carb
all the way, you don't have to watch you fat intake. When
people read that, it scares them. I am not sure why. Your
body is a machine that changes every 24 to 48 hours. Lets
say you start eating fats and proteins and cut carbs. Do you
know your body will start burning fat? It does. I used to
weigh 250 pounds over 5 years ago. I got down to 210 for a
few years on low carb and then I got down to 183, which is
where I am now. My body fat is a little below 15% and I am
38 years old. I plan on losing another 5 pounds over the
next two months.

Enjoy, Curt

"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> The story thus far....
>
> 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
> in citizens
class
> triathlons.
>
> Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
> no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
>
> Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
> started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000
> miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000
> miles for 5 pounds?!
>
> My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
> rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
> miles - all solo. My computer puts my average
speed
> for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
> particular ups&downs
of
> the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right
> about 75% of max (although that can vary, usually on the
> high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and
> mean while I ride, but when I get home I
wonder
> who that fat guy in the mirror is!
>
> I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
> I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
> 2500 - 3000. One friend who is
a
> "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
> Although she readily admits she doesn't specialize in
> athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how she describes her
> typical client), she says that with my activity level my
> BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of
> calories needed to just maintain my weight! Therefore she
> thinks my body thinks it's being starved and refuses to
> let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will
> move away from this starvation reflex and start shedding
> pounds. She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to fat
> because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a
> recipe for the BONK to me).
>
> Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
> felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
> just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving
> sugar after the ride.
>
> Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
> Are there any coaching services online that could help
> customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
> afford to hire a coach.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Hi Doug,

I can totally sympathize with you, man. BTDT -- still DT.

It's real simple, v. bottom line: you're going to have to
focus on the food end.

I'm in a similar position, gained about 30# after i quit
smokes (no big deal, i bike, right). Gave myself a year of
"grace time" then hammered my ass off for over a year,
commuting...great legs, big fat belly and absolutely no
change in weight. :-/

i substituted a lot of garden veggies for my gigantor
steaks and buckets of sushi rice :-) and have gotten pretty
good results.

I'm pretty sure it's an age thing. keep riding and count
those calories!

bon chance!

.max
p.s. kudos on the miles

--
the part of <betatron@earthlink.net> was played by maxwell
monningh 8-p

> Diet - Again, with your body type, a big obsticle is going
> to be your slow metabolic rate. Try to avoid simple
> carbohydrates (refined sugars, white breads, etc.) DO NOT
> do the low-carb/high protein fad diets. They are very
> unhealthy and any weight loss is temporary. Forget the
> three big meals a
day
> thing and eat smaller meals more often and most
> importantly, learn to recognize when you are satisfied,
> not full! Other than that just try to
eat
> a balanced diet and drink lots of water.

I would hardly call low carbohydrate diets a fad. They have
been around since the 50's that I know of. They are just in
the news a lot because people have wised up. A low carb diet
is much more than any fad. It actually works. You would need
to at least read the Atkins book to have an understanding of
how it works, but I can tell from your post you know nothing
about it and just call it a fad diet. You also have lots to
learn about low carbohydrate diets. Who do you think you are
calling them unhealthy? Do you know there are diabetics on
this diet and now can go off there medications? Do you know
there are plenty of people that have lost over 100 pounds
and they keep it off with their knowledge of low carb?

I suggest you stick to your X armature body building status
and no try and be a Doctor or nutrition.

If I was the original poster, the first thing I would do is
cut the carbs. What is funny, you suggested the same thing,
but you just don't like the works low carb.

Enjoy, Curt

On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:03:15 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Nonsense on not eating enough. You need to eat less. i
>suggest you use fitday.com to track everything you eat.
>Limit calories to about 2200 per day. You may want to try
>low-carb if you have problems with hunger/appetite.

I agree he's eating too much, but it may be he's getting too
much food at one time, swelling the stomach, or bingeing
during lower mileage weeks, b/c after all if you're not out
biking, you tend to be snacking.

It's pretty easy to be way over your caloric estimate due to
things like gulping a half glass of milk right out of the
jug three or four times a day but failing to count it, or
grabbing a chunk of cheese and a couple slices of lunchmeat
in between meals, but not counting it. That's why it's
instructive to write down everything for a representative
period, IMO.

It may have been debunked but some ppl still may have
problems resulting in keeping the paunch by continuing to
eat and snack after dinner until bedtime.

Finally, the cravings for sugar shouldn't be happening.
That's a sure sign of 'carb addiction', and insulin
resistance.

But don't stop with just these suggestions. Get the bible
"The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald, and "Protein Power"
by Eades and learn the facts yourself.

-B

Doug Cook wrote:

> I've read the thread about the fat fraud, but I am fat.
> I've got this big inner tube around my middle that
> interferes with getting into a nice aero position, puts
> unnecessary stress on my butt in the saddle (the biggest
> reason I don't ride longer), and I'm scared to even think
> about what I could do on the climbs if it were gone.

I'm in a similar position. I don't cycle nearly as much as
you because I'm afraid of the road, but I do an hour a night
on an exercycle. Fitness levels have definitely improved,
but my appearance is unchanged.

My body was ruined in the first place by a quarter century
of dieting. When I started at 14, I was thin as a rail. I
dieted because all girls diet, it's what they're supposed
to do, and because I didn't much relish the idea of
becoming woman-shaped. Between then and the age of forty,
when I stopped, I must have lost and regained a third or
more of my total body mass at least fifteen times. Every
time I starved for months, and every time I came back much
fatter than before. In addition, I went through major
depressions, bouts with suicidal thoughts and lost my
opportunity of an academic life because I didn't have the
physical or mental strength to complete my doctorate. I
will never, ever diet again.

But the awareness that one can still be fit without
necessarily being thin is only just beginning to emerge. I'm
concentrating on that now.

I've read that cycling does nothing to bellies or to the
upper body; it just muscles up the legs. Certainly that's
true in my case. I still have my big fat thighs - now they
are even bigger fat thighs with muscles on top.

Perhaps sit-ups would do the belly trick?

EFR Ile de France