speeding ticket - Page 3

Fritz M <news@m4s0n3r.n3+> wrote:

>Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>> I can easily outstop "half bikes".
>
>Especially when the braking method is helmet into mirror, eh Mark?

I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
helmet foam.

>How are you healing up?

My neck and shoulders are still really sore, and I'm still a little punch drunk (like anyone would
notice the difference...).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:00:53 +0000 (UTC), steveo@panix.com (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>one of the six billion <varuna.remove@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>>Cars have decelerated in front of me much faster than the 2 tenths of a second max that I can
>>start braking from when I first see their brake lights. I've come up to many four way stop signs
>>screaming as fast as I could while coming to a full stop and had cars that were much farther away
>>than I was make it there first. Cars can stop faster than bikes.
>
>Okay, okay. Maybe you're right. But they definitely can't accelerate as quickly.

Okay, so on a bike I can be uop to cruising speed of 20+ kph inside of a couple of meters, or a few
seconds. It takes a car longer to get to cruising -- but, properly operated, it doesn't really take
him longer to get up to 20 kph.

Jasper

On 03 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:

> I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
> helmet foam.

How long the foam crumple takes is what matters. A WAG at some parameters (0.1 s deceleration time,
ISO standard 14 kg spherical head) gives about 100 gs. If the foam crush takes twice as long, 50 gs,
half as long, 200 g.

--
Kind Regards, Bruce.

In article <Xns93905C6B175EDboneheadontheboardwa@129.250.170.95>, bonehead@newsguy.com says...
> On 03 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:
>
> > I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
> > helmet foam.
>
> How long the foam crumple takes is what matters. A WAG at some parameters (0.1 s deceleration
> time, ISO standard 14 kg spherical head) gives about 100 gs. If the foam crush takes twice as
> long, 50 gs, half as long, 200 g.

I believe you moved the decimal point one spot to the right: 20 mph is
29.33 fps, which number is almost the 32 ft/sec/sec. Dropping 32 ft/sec
in .1 sec is 10g, not 100g. 29.33 ft/sec is going to be a bit less than that. The mass of the head
doesn't affect the deceleration; only the force required to attain it.

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

Jasper Janssen <jasper@jjanssen.org> wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:00:53 +0000 (UTC), steveo@panix.com (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>>one of the six billion <varuna.remove@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>>Cars have decelerated in front of me much faster than the 2 tenths of a second max that I can
>>>start braking from when I first see their brake lights. I've come up to many four way stop signs
>>>screaming as fast as I could while coming to a full stop and had cars that were much farther away
>>>than I was make it there first. Cars can stop faster than bikes.
>>
>>Okay, okay. Maybe you're right. But they definitely can't accelerate as quickly.
>
>Okay, so on a bike I can be uop to cruising speed of 20+ kph inside of a couple of meters, or a few
>seconds. It takes a car longer to get to cruising -- but, properly operated, it doesn't really take
>him longer to get up to 20 kph.

I'm talking more like 1 or 2 kph.
--
Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com The true automobile is the bicycle.

Bruce Hollebone <bonehead@newsguy.com> wrote:

>On 03 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>> I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
>> helmet foam.
>
>How long the foam crumple takes is what matters. A WAG at some parameters (0.1 s deceleration time,
>ISO standard 14 kg spherical head) gives about 100 gs. If the foam crush takes twice as long, 50
>gs, half as long, 200 g.

Well, figuring I was going around 30 feet per second (just under
10m/s), and figuring that I crushed 1" (2.54cm) of foam, the stop would have taken only about .003
seconds. Factor in the dent I put in the door, and I don't have a clue how long it took. But
the numbers look scary, eh?

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:

> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>
> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
> for speeding.

Wonder what happens if they pull over a tandem?! Do both people get a ticket?

-kt

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:

> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>
> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
> for speeding.

Wonder what happens if they pull over a tandem?! Do both people get a ticket?

-kt

kingsley <kingsley@maddogsbreakfast.com.au> wrote:
>On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:
>
>> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
>> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
>> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>>
>> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a
>> ticket for speeding.
>
>
>Wonder what happens if they pull over a tandem?! Do both people get a ticket?

Yeah, and what about a human-powered bus?

http://www.ds.arch.tue.nl/General/St...Pbus/HPbus.htm

--
Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com The true automobile is the bicycle.

"Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com> wrote

> I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
> helmet foam.
>

From the CPSC test standard: http://www.bhsi.org/cpscfinl.htm
(d) Impact attenuation criteria.
(1) General. A helmet fails the impact attenuation performance test of this standard if a
failure under paragraph (d)(2) of this section can be induced under any combination of
impact site, anvil type, anvil impact order, or conditioning environment permissible under
the standard, either with or without any attachments, or combinations of attachments, that
are provided with the helmet. Thus, the Commission will test for a ``worst case''
combination of test parameters. What constitutes a worst case may vary, depending on the
particular helmet involved.
(2) Peak acceleration. The peak acceleration of any impact shall not exceed 300 g when the
helmet is tested in accordance with Sec. 1203.17 of this standard.

Pete

In article <gg0qdvggv1ifaiu7ujkcd58b1ci3jcsq58@4ax.com>, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>Fritz M <news@m4s0n3r.n3+> wrote:

>>How are you healing up?
>
>My neck and shoulders are still really sore, and I'm still a little punch drunk (like anyone would
>notice the difference...).

How about the mental part? The fear of cars and of something like that happening again. In my case,
that took longer than the physical stuff.

--
--
LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot taste the difference between
fried dog and fried cat?

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:08:19 +0000 (UTC), steveo@panix.com (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>kingsley <kingsley@maddogsbreakfast.com.au> wrote:

>>Wonder what happens if they pull over a tandem?! Do both people get a ticket?
>
>Yeah, and what about a human-powered bus?
>
>http://www.ds.arch.tue.nl/General/St...Pbus/HPbus.htm

Are those freewheels on the shaft? I see serious safety issues, given normal-style pedals, in not
having individual freewheels. Think what would happen if someone slipped off the pedals (given that
they're going to a brewery and back -- with free beer tasting, no doubt -- hardly an unlikely
occurrence) and the pedals didn't coast, but were still powered by 31 humans *and* 2.5 metric tonnes
of weight moving at 20 kph.

On a similar note: http://www.fietscafe.nl/

A human powered bar on wheels.

Jasper

pete@bitman.uottawa.ca.DELETE.ME (Pete Hickey) wrote:

>In article <gg0qdvggv1ifaiu7ujkcd58b1ci3jcsq58@4ax.com>, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>>Fritz M <news@m4s0n3r.n3+> wrote:
>
>>>How are you healing up?
>>
>>My neck and shoulders are still really sore, and I'm still a little punch drunk (like anyone would
>>notice the difference...).
>
>How about the mental part? The fear of cars and of something like that happening again. In my case,
>that took longer than the physical stuff.

I was worried about that as well. Got a chance to test it out on the first ride after the crash. A
young stud in a Camaro with his woman started to turn into me at an intersection in downtown Tempe.
I didn't freak out at all - just got ready to brake and glared at him.

I think I might be a bit more aware of the potential for a car squirting through stopped traffic now
- but I haven't noticed anything else "feeling different" (other than due to the fitness I lose
being off the bike for a while).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Steven M. O'Neill <steveo@panix.com> wrote:
: Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
:>tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) writes:
:>
:>> Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
:>> playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).
:>>
:>> I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get past a rider who is doing the speed
:>> limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many riders ignore those speed limits.
:>
:>It is difficult to observe speed limits, even if you want to, when you don't have a bike computer.
:>I know that I only carry my bike computer on recreational rides. Since the majority of my rides
:>are utility rides, this means I don't have it very often.

: It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle can
: do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much much
: less damage at any given speed.

Well, I think it's a total safety thing. I've only been speeding once, I was doing 36.4 in a 35... I
know, not much over the limit, but it was the fasted I had ever ridden.

Safetywise, I don't think I'd go that fast again (I was on a rural highway going downhill) but I did
jump at the chance at the time. When I looked at my bike computer I suddenly realized any wrong
move, and it was gonna hurt big.. I was wearing a helmet, but that wouldn't have helped much at that
speed I don't think.

--
John Nelson
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On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:17:10 +0000 (UTC), Chicago Paddling-Fishing <jwn@ripco.com> wrote:

> Steven M. O'Neill <steveo@panix.com> wrote:
> : Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> :>tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) writes:
> :>
> :>> Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
> :>> playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).
> :>> :>> I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get
> :>> past a rider who is doing the speed limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many
> :>> riders ignore those speed limits.
> :>
> :>It is difficult to observe speed limits, even if you want to, when you don't have a bike
> :>computer. I know that I only carry my bike computer on recreational rides. Since the majority of
> :>my rides are utility rides, this means I don't have it very often.
>
> : It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle can
> : do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much much
> : less damage at any given speed.
>
> Well, I think it's a total safety thing. I've only been speeding once, I was doing 36.4 in a 35...
> I know, not much over the limit, but it was the fasted I had ever ridden.
>
> Safetywise, I don't think I'd go that fast again (I was on a rural highway going downhill) but I
> did jump at the chance at the time. When I looked at my bike computer I suddenly realized any
> wrong move, and it was gonna hurt big.. I was wearing a helmet, but that wouldn't have helped much
> at that speed I don't think.
>

It depends on where you ride. In AZ, I rarely if ever broke the speed limit, as the speed limits
were higher (I rode roads with 45+ mph speed limits) and it was primarily plat. In CT, it's a
different story. Today, I hit 46 mph going downhill (as measured by "highest speed" on my
speedometer). The speed limit -- I believe -- is 35 mph in that area (and it might actually be 25!).
So, I was going faster than the speed limit. But it's a lightly traveled road (at least at 6:30 am
it is), and cars are going way faster than I am. For instance, on another downhill, I paced a truck
in front of me for a while, but as soon as it became flat, he took off. I believe I was speeding at
that time, too, but I tend not to look down often.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply