speeding ticket

I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
(robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg has
(allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.

Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
for speeding.

If I was him, I'd pay the fine, frame the ticket and show it off to all my friends!

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:

> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>
> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
> for speeding.

--
Ron McKinnon rmckin

spam > root@127.0.0.1 at magma

http://www.magma.ca/~rmckin dot ca

Ron McKinnon wrote:
>
> If I was him, I'd pay the fine, frame the ticket and show it off to all my friends!
>
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:
>
> > I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> > (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> > has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
> >
> > Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a
> > ticket for speeding.

I hope he did not show his Drivers License!

--
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That's the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why
they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation. "
- George Bush Jr.

http://minime.de/bush/ http://www.911pi.com/ http://www.warprofiteers.com/
http://www.mindprod.com/bush911.html http://www.rise4news.net/Saddam-CIA.html

"example.com" <spamrecieptaccount@rr.com> wrote in news:jEeCa.87450$h42.23821 @twister.nyc.rr.com:
> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
> for speeding.

Was he otherwise riding legally? How fast was he going? Cops are usually pretty lenient with bicycle
speeders on public streets unless they were endangering others (weaving wildly, riding on the
sidewalk, etc.). Does this ticket count as a moving infraction, affecting his auto insurance rates
(if he has auto insurance)?

In article <jEeCa.87450$h42.23821@twister.nyc.rr.com>, "example.com"
<spamrecieptaccount@rr.com> writes:
> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>
> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
> for speeding.

Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).

I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get past a rider who is doing the speed
limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many riders ignore those speed limits.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) writes:

> Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
> playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).
>
> I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get past a rider who is doing the speed
> limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many riders ignore those speed limits.

It is difficult to observe speed limits, even if you want to, when you don't have a bike computer. I
know that I only carry my bike computer on recreational rides. Since the majority of my rides are
utility rides, this means I don't have it very often.

If I were stopped by a cop when I did have my bike computer, I'd switch the display to "average
speed" and show it to him. "See, I was only going (max speed minus 10 mph), officer." :-)
--
"The road to hell is paved with convenient shortcuts." --Peter da Silva

From somewhere in cyberspace, Ken <nospam@no.spam> said:
>"example.com" <spamrecieptaccount@rr.com> wrote in news:jEeCa.87450$h42.23821 @twister.nyc.rr.com:
>> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a
>> ticket for speeding.
...
>Does this ticket count as a moving infraction, affecting his auto insurance rates (if he has auto
>insurance)?

NY State law is set up so that bicycle infractions do NOT count as points or otherwise affect your
driver's license. BTW, it doesn't matter if you don't show your license for ID when stopped for a
bicycle violation, you can be looked up easily enough by the cops or elsewhere in the bureaucracy.

Tell Robert to save the ticket - as long as the ticket says "bicycle" on it for the type of vehicle,
if it shows up on his driving record he will be able to bring it to the DMV and get it corrected.

Meanwhile, I'd love to hear more about this - where was Robert cycling? What was the speed limit
that was allegedly violated? Did the unmarked car have radar? Is Robert going to fight the ticket?
--
Ed Ravin | "The way you tell the good socialists from the bad ones is eravin@ | that the good ones
ride bikes." panix.com | ---- M.J. Smith
|

Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
>tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) writes:
>
>> Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
>> playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).
>>
>> I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get past a rider who is doing the speed
>> limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many riders ignore those speed limits.
>
>It is difficult to observe speed limits, even if you want to, when you don't have a bike computer.
>I know that I only carry my bike computer on recreational rides. Since the majority of my rides are
>utility rides, this means I don't have it very often.

It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle can do,
right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much much less
damage at any given speed.

--
Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com The true automobile is the bicycle.

In article <bbdm2h$nmn$2@reader1.panix.com>, steveo@panix.com says...
> Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) writes:
> >
> >> Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
> >> playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).
> >>
> >> I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get past a rider who is doing the
> >> speed limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many riders ignore those speed limits.
> >
> >It is difficult to observe speed limits, even if you want to, when you don't have a bike
> >computer. I know that I only carry my bike computer on recreational rides. Since the majority of
> >my rides are utility rides, this means I don't have it very often.
>
> It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle can
> do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much much
> less damage at any given speed.

That's not the only reason for speed limits: _preventing_ accidents on roads which are narrow,
twisty, with limited sight lines, or with lots of driveways and/or crossroads are also legitimate
reasons for lower speed limits.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>In article <bbdm2h$nmn$2@reader1.panix.com>, steveo@panix.com says...
>> Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> >tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) writes:
>> >
>> >> Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
>> >> playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).
>> >>
>> >> I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get past a rider who is doing the
>> >> speed limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many riders ignore those speed limits.
>> >
>> >It is difficult to observe speed limits, even if you want to, when you don't have a bike
>> >computer. I know that I only carry my bike computer on recreational rides. Since the majority of
>> >my rides are utility rides, this means I don't have it very often.
>>
>> It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle can
>> do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much much
>> less damage at any given speed.
>
>That's not the only reason for speed limits: _preventing_ accidents on roads which are narrow,
>twisty, with limited sight lines, or with lots of driveways and/or crossroads are also legitimate
>reasons for lower speed limits.

Preventing an accident is a very good way to control the amount of damage a motor vehicle
can do, yes.
--
Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com The true automobile is the bicycle.

> >It is difficult to observe speed limits, even if you want to, when you don't have a bike
> >computer. I know that I only carry my bike computer on recreational rides. Since the majority of
> >my rides are utility rides, this means I don't have it very often.
>
> It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle can
> do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much much
> less damage at any given speed.

Even without a bike computer you should have a pretty good idea of whether you are speeding or not
even if you don't know your exact speed. Usually for instance school zones / 30 km/h zones are
difficult to speed in because they have frequent stop signs, speed humps and other traffic calming
measures. Also If you are zooming downhill in a residential area, you are likely over the limit.
If you bypass the stop signs etc. to be travelling too high in a 30 km/h zone, you pose a danger
to others.

Obviously a bicycle will do much less damage, but I still would not want to hit a pedestrian while
going 40 km/h. In low limit zones people often dart out across the street without looking first and
by going too fast you may not be able to avoid them.

Still I agree in most cases its probably rather silly to give a cyclist a speeding ticket unless
they are being really reckless and violating other traffic laws.

"Steven M. O'Neill" <steveo@panix.com> wrote in message news:bbdm2h$nmn$2@reader1.panix.com...
>
> It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle can
> do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much much
> less damage at any given speed.
>

Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph, however a car can stop faster.
There are definite times when a bicycle can be dangerous because of excess speed. On the other hand,
because of the potential for damage as well as the scale I think every minute spent targeting
bicycle infractions is time wasted going after the bigger fish, people breaking the law driving
motor vehicles.

Tom Keats wrote:

> In article <jEeCa.87450$h42.23821@twister.nyc.rr.com>, "example.com"
> <spamrecieptaccount@rr.com> writes:
> > I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> > (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> > has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
> >
> > Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a
> > ticket for speeding.
>
> Actually, if one was so inclined, it's quite easy for a rider to speed through a school or
> playground zone with a speed limit of 30 Km/h (20 MPH).
>
> I've noted how many drivers will step on the gas just to get past a rider who is doing the speed
> limit in a school zone. And I've also noted how many riders ignore those speed limits.
>
> cheers, Tom
>
> --
> -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
> [point] bc [point] ca

I've noticed how completely enraged car drivers get when I drive the speed limit past a playground -
hey, I can drive! It's stressing and depressing when I get passed while doing 30 k in a 30 k zone
with children playing nearby. Bernie

In article <3EDACAC9.4135A4AC@direct.ca>, Bernie <bmcilvan@direct.ca> writes:

> I've noticed how completely enraged car drivers get when I drive the speed limit past a playground
> - hey, I can drive! It's stressing and depressing when I get passed while doing 30 k in a 30 k
> zone with children playing nearby. Bernie

I see numerous schools have taken to planting their own signs, supplementary to the official
signage. Rows of yellow, soft plastic signs stuck in the grass along the roadside, reminding drivers
to slow down. But I think they look too much like real estate or "open house" signs, for all the
recognition they get.

It appears one criterion for designating bike routes in Vancouver, is proximity to schools. But the
routes often seem to have the unintended consequence of attracting rat runners[*]. So then the City
has to install speed bumps, like along Ontario Street, which is now corrugated with them. I've seen
a few drivers along there bottom-out on them, while desparately and vainly trying to pass me or
other riders. Then they approach the rest of the speed bumps very gingerly.

Interestingly, the speed bumps appear to be so scientifically designed and engineered, that riders
travelling exactly at 30 km/h can comfortably surmount them without having to unweight the saddle
very much, but cars exceeding 30 km/h by even a little bit, get a fairly serious wake-up call.

I'm impressed by the thoughtful design that went into things. They're not just lumps of asphalt. And
they're a lot more effective than a bunch of extra signs.

cheers, Tom
[*] I've heard the term used to describe impatient, shortcut-seeking, car-driving commuters who will
run through the "maze" of side streets to try to lop a few seconds off their commute time.

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

Tom Keats wrote:

> In article <3EDACAC9.4135A4AC@direct.ca>, Bernie <bmcilvan@direct.ca> writes:
>
> > I've noticed how completely enraged car drivers get when I drive the speed limit past a
> > playground - hey, I can drive! It's stressing and depressing when I get passed while doing 30 k
> > in a 30 k zone with children playing nearby. Bernie
>
> I see numerous schools have taken to planting their own signs, supplementary to the official
> signage. Rows of yellow, soft plastic signs stuck in the grass along the roadside, reminding
> drivers to slow down. But I think they look too much like real estate or "open house" signs, for
> all the recognition they get.
>
> It appears one criterion for designating bike routes in Vancouver, is proximity to schools. But
> the routes often seem to have the unintended consequence of attracting rat runners[*]. So then the
> City has to install speed bumps, like along Ontario Street, which is now corrugated with them.
> I've seen a few drivers along there bottom-out on them, while desparately and vainly trying to
> pass me or other riders. Then they approach the rest of the speed bumps very gingerly.
>
> Interestingly, the speed bumps appear to be so scientifically designed and engineered, that riders
> travelling exactly at 30 km/h can comfortably surmount them without having to unweight the saddle
> very much, but cars exceeding 30 km/h by even a little bit, get a fairly serious wake-up call.
>
> I'm impressed by the thoughtful design that went into things. They're not just lumps of asphalt.
> And they're a lot more effective than a bunch of extra signs.
>
> cheers, Tom
>
>[*] I've heard the term used to describe impatient, shortcut-seeking, car-driving commuters who
> will run through the "maze" of side streets to try to lop a few seconds off their commute time.
>
> --
> -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
> [point] bc [point] ca

Tom

You and I are "preaching to the choir" when we chat this way. I use Ontario St. and a couple of
other designated Vancouver bike routes regularly. I love them! Those bumps on Ontario (by Nat
Bailey?) are no prob to a bicycle, but keep cars in line.

There's a school on 8th Ave in New Westminster that has huge signs reminding drivers of the speed
limit, including hours of school operation, and traffic still moves fast. The signs are nothing. I
suspect they have near zero effect. And they are reminding drivers of their responsibility, and
asking them to not kill children. I guess they will work, outside of RUSH HOUR - the sacred time
when cars must not slow down unless there is an interesting crash to scope out. Me? Bitter? What?
Why are you bugging me? Very Best Regards, Bernie