Why has shifting improved?

I have seen the experts here reminisce that shifting has improved greatly over the years.

I recently replaced the rear derailleur on a 20 year old bike. The freewheel has 6 strait tooth
cogs, without the ramps found on modern ones. The bike shifts with a satisifing kachunka sound. My
relatively new 9 cog bike shifts usually silently but not more reliably. So except for sound I see
no difference.

Is that because of the new derailleur? What shifting quality has improved?

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:16:31 +0000, Ed Culp wrote:

> I have seen the experts here reminisce that shifting has improved greatly over the years.
>
> I recently replaced the rear derailleur on a 20 year old bike. The freewheel has 6 strait tooth
> cogs, without the ramps found on modern ones. The bike shifts with a satisifing kachunka sound. My
> relatively new 9 cog bike shifts usually silently but not more reliably. So except for sound I see
> no difference.
>
> Is that because of the new derailleur? What shifting quality has improved?

Well, the kachunk might translate to no shift at all under load. Modern systems are far easier due
to indexed shifting (click into each gear rather than moving -- about -- the right distance), levers
that are part of the brake lever, and better-designed derailleurs. The combination has added up to a
real improvement.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou say?
-- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |

In 1983 (20 years ago) virtually all road bikes had downtube friction shifters - cheap bikes had "stem" shifters. There was no indexing beyond a few failed prototypes so your bike would not have gone "kachunka". Shifting a bike 20 years ago was done well ahead of when one needed the new gear, from a seated position, and with a coaxing hand maneuver. You could get fast at it but it would never go "kachunka".

Indexing (derailleur/shifter interface) and ramped tooth profiles are what make shifting fast these days. Integrated shifters and brake levers make it more convenient. Combined, these improvements allow for shifting under load while standing - something I'll wager precious few people ever attempted 20 years ago.

8-speed to 9-speed to 10-speed improvements have been minor but that's all happened in the last 10 years or so. Friction shifting to STI/Ergo improvements were revolutionary and that all happened in the late 80's/early 90's.

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:00:24 +0950, DiabloScott wrote:

> In 1983 (20 years ago) virtually all road bikes had downtube friction shifters - cheap bikes had
> "stem" shifters. There was no indexing beyond a few failed prototypes so your bike would not have
> gone "kachunka". Shifting a bike 20 years ago was done well ahead of when one needed the new gear,
> from a seated position, and with a coaxing hand maneuver. You could get fast at it but it would
> never go "kachunka".

Sure it would. Kachunka, ping, rattle-rattle-rattle, clickity-click.
>
> Indexing (derailleur/shifter interface) and ramped tooth profiles are what make shifting fast
> these days. Integrated shifters and brake levers make it more convenient. Combined, these
> improvements allow for shifting under load while standing - something I'll wager precious few
> people ever attempted 20 years ago.

Try none. I can't imagine anyone being able to reach down to the downtube while standing, for one,
and the derailleur would just not have shifted.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong. _`\(,_ | He's not the kind
you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:16:31 +0000, Ed Culp wrote:

> What shifting quality has improved?

Spinal Tap compatibility:

Soon, it's going to go up to 11...

David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:00:24 +0950, DiabloScott wrote:

> > it more convenient. Combined, these improvements allow for shifting under load while standing -
> > something I'll wager precious few people ever attempted 20 years ago.

> Try none. I can't imagine anyone being able to reach down to the downtube while standing, for one,
> and the derailleur would just not have shifted.

I used to shift under load while standing - inadvertently, when a friction shifter slipped. (My
theory is that this happens because of repeated frame flexing.)

I do like indexing, and STI, though my commuter/cross bike has barcons. But IMO, even friction
shifting is more tolerable, given modern derailleurs and shaped cogs. Oh, and shifters that
don't slip (Suntour Power Ratchets, or Shimano index shifters which are pretty nice in friction
mode as well).

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:36:13 +0000, Benjamin Weiner wrote:

> I used to shift under load while standing - inadvertently, when a friction shifter slipped. (My
> theory is that this happens because of repeated frame flexing.)

Tends to be lack of lube on the cable guides under the bottom bracket.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news:<bersc1$qj8@fidoii.CC.Lehigh.EDU>...
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:00:24 +0950, DiabloScott wrote:
>
> > In 1983 (20 years ago) virtually all road bikes had downtube friction shifters - cheap bikes had
> > "stem" shifters. There was no indexing beyond a few failed prototypes so your bike would not
> > have gone "kachunka". Shifting a bike 20 years ago was done well ahead of when one needed the
> > new gear, from a seated position, and with a coaxing hand maneuver. You could get fast at it but
> > it would never go "kachunka".
>
> Sure it would. Kachunka, ping, rattle-rattle-rattle, clickity-click.
> >
> > Indexing (derailleur/shifter interface) and ramped tooth profiles are what make shifting fast
> > these days. Integrated shifters and brake levers make it more convenient. Combined, these
> > improvements allow for shifting under load while standing - something I'll wager precious few
> > people ever attempted 20 years ago.
>
> Try none. I can't imagine anyone being able to reach down to the downtube while standing, for one,
> and the derailleur would just not have shifted.

Nope, there was one guy I remember who did it all the time. I have an old picture of him, but it's
not the best.

http://tinyurl.com/gz6s