Another ignorant new guy question - Page 3

>As I said, cadence is the new cult that replaced ankling of years past. New rider age is
>increasing, as are the number of weak knees.

Cult it may be, but it isn't anything new.

The old racer's drill was to ride fixed gear in the winter to improve their spin for the
racing season.

Chris Neary diabloridr@comcast.net

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the
elements I loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:30:42 +0000 (UTC), "Hans Kohb" <k0hb@earthlink.net> wrote:

>"Joe Potter" <none@home.org> wrote
>
>> I have learned what cadence I should be at because this saves my knees
>
>Thankfully my knees are just fine. (I lead a pretty active outdoor life.) How does whether I'm
>loafing along at 40 RPM hurt my knees more than churning like heck in a lower gear at 80 RPM?

I'm not sure this contributes anything, but at 80 RPM I feel like I'm loafing along. Actually I feel
like I'm mashing the pedals. Loafing along for me is about 87 or 88; and yes, that's where I tend to
settle when I'm just loafing. Surprisingly it's that precise.

Comfortable cruising seems to be about 93-95, while when I'm pushing I tend to be at around 100.

We're all different. Some are natural spinners and some are natural mashers, but pedalling at 40 RPM
strikes me as falling well outside any reasonable range.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

John Everett writes:

>>> I have learned what cadence I should be at because this saves my knees.

>> Thankfully my knees are just fine. (I lead a pretty active outdoor life.) How does whether I'm
>> loafing along at 40 RPM hurt my knees more than churning like heck in a lower gear at 80 RPM?

> I'm not sure this contributes anything, but at 80 RPM I feel like I'm loafing along. Actually I
> feel like I'm mashing the pedals. Loafing along for me is about 87 or 88; and yes, that's where I
> tend to settle when I'm just loafing. Surprisingly it's that precise.

> Comfortable cruising seems to be about 93-95, while when I'm pushing I tend to be at around 100.

Do you ride only in the flats or do you also climb hills, like a few miles of 10% grade? We have
plenty of hills around here and I seldom see spinning riders. What do you do on steep grades?

> We're all different. Some are natural spinners and some are natural mashers, but pedalling at 40
> RPM strikes me as falling well outside any reasonable range.

I cruise downtown in top gear at times, traveling at 10-12mph and that is around 40rpm. I see no
reason why this should cause knee injury. Can you expand on your method and what it does. RPM alone
doesn't tell me much.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

"John Everett" <jeverett3@earthlink.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote in message
newsu59lvk6cuqkb603t651anr5jholl017d5@4ax.com...
>
> We're all different. Some are natural spinners and some are natural mashers, but pedalling at 40
> RPM strikes me as falling well outside any reasonable range.

If you ride a fixed gear your cadence varies with speed, it's no big deal.

After reading many people's opinions about cadence, here's my take:

Since I started cycling, I've always bought computers that measure cadence.

When I started, all the info I found said to look for 80 rpm as much as possible.

I always did. I was never as fast as other riders.

Lately, since I've had a road bike with very high gearing, a double crank, and no low gearing, and I
haven't had money to change it out, I've experimented with mashing lower cadences.

What a difference! By not listening to my body, I've missed out on 5 years of additional fun to be
had from not being out of breath and not having painful legs.

Now, I range from 40 to 120 rpm, and most recently have found that on level land I'm faster _and_
have more endurance at 50 rpm. On uphills, I may spin up to 80 or 90, and can endure that better
because I'm rested up from running 50 before. Going downhill, I get up to 120 rpm (I _will_ get
lower gearing!) before my stroke gets too inefficient.

I used the cadence function to measure my cadence, rather than to force myself to the prescribed
cadence; I must be a horrible cyclist. <G>

I always used to spin gears that were just too "easy" for me, because that's what's always advocated
for speed, effiency, fitness, health, and so on. Now that I'm pushing taller gears, I enjoy riding
so much more!

I'll bet that I'm quite atypical...but the point is, you must find _your_ comfort zone.

--
Rick Onanian

>When I started, all the info I found said to look for 80 rpm as much as possible.
>
>I always did. I was never as fast as other riders.
>
>Lately, since I've had a road bike with very high gearing, a double crank, and no low gearing, and
>I haven't had money to change it out, I've experimented with mashing lower cadences.
>
>What a difference! By not listening to my body, I've missed out on 5 years of additional fun to be
>had from not being out of breath and not having painful legs.
>
>Now, I range from 40 to 120 rpm, and most recently have found that on level land I'm faster _and_
>have more endurance at 50 rpm. On uphills, I may spin up to 80 or 90, and can endure that better
>because I'm rested up from running 50 before. Going downhill, I get up to 120 rpm (I _will_ get
>lower gearing!) before my stroke gets too inefficient.

You've also discovered a key difference between trained racers and your typical recreational rider.

The rec rider optimizes his power at a single cadence (might by 80 RPM, might be something else),
while the racer is capable of rapidly changing RPM to respond to changes in speed within the peloton
or from attacks.

Chris Neary diabloridr@comcast.net

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the
elements I loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:32:18 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>John Everett writes:
>
>> Comfortable cruising seems to be about 93-95, while when I'm pushing I tend to be at around 100.
>
>Do you ride only in the flats or do you also climb hills, like a few miles of 10% grade? We have
>plenty of hills around here and I seldom see spinning riders. What do you do on steep grades?

The nearest few miles of 10% grade is probably 800-1000 miles away (from Aurora, Illinois). When I
wrote the above I was only thinking about the riding I typically do, and plan on doing again in an
hour or so.

I seem to have conveniently forgotten that I just got back from a cycling trip to Frisco, Colorado;
but even there a 10% grade is hard to find. Last year (my first trip to the Rockies) I took a bike
with a double. I believe its low was a 39/26 or so. Since I promised my girlfriend I would ride with
her I found myself climbing passes at cadences in the 40s, she having a triple equipped bike.

I hated grinding up hill so much I bought a touring bike with a triple when I got home. I took that
bike to Colorado this year and found I was much more comfortable climbing at higher cadences.

>> We're all different. Some are natural spinners and some are natural mashers, but pedalling at 40
>> RPM strikes me as falling well outside any reasonable range.

>I cruise downtown in top gear at times, traveling at 10-12mph and that is around 40rpm. I see no
>reason why this should cause knee injury. Can you expand on your method and what it does. RPM alone
>doesn't tell me much.

Note that I never claimed any relationship between cadence and knee injuries; those claims were made
by other posters. I was only saying that contrary to the original poster's assertion, to me a
cadence of 80 is far from spinning, and 40 is just off scale. See above, "We're all different."

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:47:31 GMT, Chris Neary <diabloridr@comcast.net> wrote:
> You've also discovered a key difference between trained racers and your typical
> recreational rider.
>
> The rec rider optimizes his power at a single cadence (might by 80 RPM, might be something else),
> while the racer is capable of rapidly changing RPM to respond to changes in speed within the
> peloton or from attacks.

Hmm...does that make me a potential racer? I cruise at varying (but usually lower than others)
cadences, but I have a large range (evidenced by what I do on hills).

Hey, wait a minute; I thought the 9 (and now 10) speed clusters with 1-tooth spacing were supposed
to be to keep racers at an optimum cadence?

I'll never understand other people's gearing.

> Chris Neary diabloridr@comcast.net
--
Rick Onanian

John Everett wrote:
> ... The nearest few miles of 10% grade is probably 800-1000 miles away (from Aurora, Illinois).
> When I wrote the above I was only thinking about the riding I typically do, and plan on doing
> again in an hour or so....

There are some reasonably long grades that are considerably steeper than this in SW Wisconsin, and
some short grades steeper than this along the Illinois and Mississippi River valleys.

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers