Another ignorant new guy question

In another thread I got some great "hey, new kid!" information. In that thread a couple of folks
mentioned cadence (of around 80 being a good number), and seemed to attach some importance to that
notion. I see passing reference to cadence in other posts too.

In a couple of rides since reading that, I have tried to pay attention to cadence, and trying to
keep a high cadence just simply distracts from my pleasure of riding.

I should point out that I'm not in this to set speed records or qualify for Tour de France (see, I learned an
insider acronym), but just get a little aerobic excercise and enjoy the birds and flowers.

Am I missing something?

(Please, no lectures about my attitude!)

Regards,

Hans

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Hans K0HB" <k0hb@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:54bcfd495c3122c3a9ce2d351cca387...e.mailgate.org...
> In another thread I got some great "hey, new kid!" information. In that thread a couple of folks
> mentioned cadence (of around 80 being a good number), and seemed to attach some importance to that
> notion. I see passing reference to cadence in other posts too.
>
> In a couple of rides since reading that, I have tried to pay attention to cadence, and trying to
> keep a high cadence just simply distracts from my pleasure of riding.
>
> I should point out that I'm not in this to set speed records or qualify for Tour de France (see, I learned an
> insider acronym), but just get a little aerobic excercise and enjoy the birds and flowers.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> (Please, no lectures about my attitude!)

Start improving your attitude, stop copping out, and your cadence will take care of itself.

PPppppppplllllllllllll....



Bill "oh, and it's T_d_F you poor ignorant bastard" S.

Hans Kohb writes:

> In another thread I got some great "hey, new kid!" information. In that thread a couple of folks
> mentioned cadence (of around 80 being a good number), and seemed to attach some importance to that
> notion. I see passing reference to cadence in other posts too.

> In a couple of rides since reading that, I have tried to pay attention to cadence, and trying to
> keep a high cadence just simply distracts from my pleasure of riding.

> I should point out that I'm not in this to set speed records or qualify for Tour de France (see, I learned an
> insider acronym), but just get a little aerobic exercise and enjoy the birds and flowers.

> Am I missing something?

Yes. In days of yore, the cadence people were "ankling" folks who attributed great improvement in
cycling speed, efficiency and enjoyment if one were to articulate the ankles suitably while
pedaling. Ultimately, the whole idea was discredited by researchers who photographed the best
professional bicyclists, who were often mentioned as having special talents in this respect. The
outcome was that ankling is peculiar to individual people like walking styles, ones by which one can
recognize people at a distance. It had nothing to do with the claimed advantages, especially since
some of the best racers did not use much ankle motion.

The same goes for the Spin-Coach folks who encourage uncomfortably high cadences for people who
would be better served by choosing the gear in which they feel most comfortable.

Ruining knees is the bugaboo that hides behind the admonition to keep cadence high. This ignores
that when climbing hills, leg force (therefore, load on the knees), is far higher than on the flats
in almost any gear. Adults who have not bicycled in many years may have atrophied knees that don't
take kindly to articulation under load, seldom having bent the knee more than required when walking
stairs. Pedaling a bicycle involves bending the knees under load, twice as much as for stairs. This
can hurt, but has little to do with cadence.

I've heard the horror stories of not keeping cadence high. No one has offered and proof or reason
for doing so other than citing that racers use high cadence in racing... but they are also traveling
about 30mph.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org Palo Alto CA

Hans K0HB wrote:

>
>
> Am I missing something?
>

I think so.

I am 51 and just started cycling 6 months ago. At that time the Doc told me not to exercised before
we got my blood pressure under control. We did. Then I could not exercise by walking due to knee
trouble --- so I started cycling.

As you can see I will not try to win any races in this life. I have learned what cadence I should be
at because this saves my knees --- not because it will win me a race. I use an old 12 speed Fuji
that I got for $41 on ebay (plus shipping of $30) and I ride here in flat Orlando at 80 rpm on the
nose most of the time; which is about 17 mph.

Remember, I am an old fellow who is trying to lose weight to please my Doc and not the next Lance.

You *are* missing the point. Listen to those who know. The cadence is all about being in the correct
gear, not speed.

--
Regards, Joe

"Hans K0HB" <k0hb@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:54bcfd495c3122c3a9ce2d351cca387....mailgate.org:

> <cadence, whats a good one>
>
> Hans

The reason people say higher cadences are better is that for a given speed of bike and a high
cadence you will be using a lower gear ratio. consequently the stress on your knee is less
per stroke.

A high cadence also increases your sprint speed, good on the road for zipping across a roundabout,
or getting away from the lights faster than the boy racer next to you.

General rule is that yes its hard to get your cadence up to start with, but it pays in the long run.
I would say don't try so hard it is uncomfortable, cycling is for FUN!

Try this thread for more, it does not degenerate into too much of a slanging match

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A3A4242C5

Fragg - *Religious issue warning*

I'm a big guy who for years pushed big gears at alower cadence, it seamed to work for me. I also
work on offshore oil rigs where arobic exercise is usually limited to running on the helicopter
deck. So 28 days of running and 28 days of riding when I'm home.. About a year ago I was tranfered
to a rig with a spinning bike. The resistance was not like a trainer and I was getting the best
workout by spinning at a higher then my normal cadence. Over the last year this has helped me up my
cadence and use a lower gear when riding at home.I have also increased the average speed of my usual
ride. I am also 50 years old and have been riding for about 20 years so this is a stand out result,
sort of like dropping 10 years of age. Not science but if someone were to ask me I would advise them
to go for a higher cadence and lower gear. Chris "Hans K0HB" <k0hb@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:54bcfd495c3122c3a9ce2d351cca387...e.mailgate.org...
> In another thread I got some great "hey, new kid!" information. In that thread a couple of folks
> mentioned cadence (of around 80 being a good number), and seemed to attach some importance to that
> notion. I see passing reference to cadence in other posts too.
>
> In a couple of rides since reading that, I have tried to pay attention to cadence, and trying to
> keep a high cadence just simply distracts from my pleasure of riding.
>
> I should point out that I'm not in this to set speed records or qualify for Tour de France (see, I learned an
> insider acronym), but just get a little aerobic excercise and enjoy the birds and flowers.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> (Please, no lectures about my attitude!)
>
> Regards,
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

>"Hans K0HB" k0hb@earthlink.net

wrote in part:

>... a couple of folks mentioned cadence (of around 80 being a good number), and seemed to attach
>some importance to that notion. I see passing reference to cadence in other posts too.
>
>In a couple of rides since reading that, I have tried to pay attention to cadence, and trying to
>keep a high cadence just simply distracts from my pleasure of riding.

There is no "right" cadence for everyone, all the time. Around 95 rpm is my usual "loafing"
cadence. If I'm hammering in a big gear that drops to about 75 rpm and when my legs start to feel
wooden a few minutes at 110 - 120 rpm helps bring them back. That doesn't mean those numbers are
the "right" cadence for you or that higher is "better". I *wish* I could grind all day at 50 rpm in
a 54x11 but I can't. Choose what works for you and if cadence interferes with enjoying your ride,
ignore it entirely.

Regards, Bob Hunt

"Hans K0HB" wrote:

> ...a couple of folks mentioned cadence (of around 80 being a good number), and seemed to attach
> some importance to that notion...
>
> In a couple of rides since reading that, I have tried to pay attention to cadence, and trying to
> keep a high cadence just simply distracts from my pleasure of riding.

Don't worry too much about it. Cadence becomes more important when you are riding hard. A high
cadence (over 100 or so) requires more cardiovascular effort but puts less strain on your leg
muscles. A lower cadence (less than 80) reduces the aerobic load but fatigues the leg muscles
more quickly.

When I'm riding hard on the flats, my preferred cadence is about
100. When I'm riding hard uphill, I tend to pedal at about 70. When I'm riding easy, cadence doesn't
matter to me one bit.

> I should point out that I'm not in this to set speed records or qualify for Tour de France (see, I learned an
> insider acronym), but just get a little aerobic excercise and enjoy the birds and flowers.
>
> Am I missing something?

Nope, you got it right. Cadence is unimportant to you at this point. When your rides become longer
and more difficult, you can start to worry about cadence.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

"Joe Potter" <none@home.org> wrote

> I have learned what cadence I should be at because this saves my knees

Thankfully my knees are just fine. (I lead a pretty active outdoor life.) How does whether I'm
loafing along at 40 RPM hurt my knees more than churning like heck in a lower gear at 80 RPM? (I'm
not trying to be argumentative here, but simply missing the underlying concept.)

> You *are* missing the point. Listen to those who know.

I've been very successful in life by not simply "listening to those who (say they) know", but by
searching for the root causes, so with all due respect, why is harmful to loaf along at 10 MPH at 50
RPM, and healthy to gear down and churn my legs at 80 RPM to make the same speed?

Thanks,

Hans (Ignorant new bastard)

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Joe Potter" <none@home.org> wrote in message news:gjv4b.6437$zK3.322151@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> Hans K0HB wrote:
>
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> I think so.

I disagree.

> You *are* missing the point. Listen to those who know.

Horse manure.

For recreational riding, ride whatever cadence feels comfortable.

Bill "different (pedal) strokes for different folks" S.

Hans Kohb wrote:

> "Joe Potter" <none@home.org> wrote
>
>> I have learned what cadence I should be at because this saves my knees
>
> Thankfully my knees are just fine. (I lead a pretty active outdoor life.) How does whether I'm
> loafing along at 40 RPM hurt my knees more than churning like heck in a lower gear at 80 RPM? (I'm
> not trying to be argumentative here, but simply missing the underlying concept.)
>

The concept is easy. I find what gear I can spin the petals at 80 rmp with not a lot of effort,
rather than trying to be in a "hard gear". This is more effient and better on the body parts.

Now, if I want to petal slower in that same gear --- this is fine. Just be in the correct gear and
not one to low for you.

I guess I am trying to say not to ruin your knees by pushing to hard on the petals.

Of course, it is *your* knees. Perhaps decades of experience by millions of riders might be of some
value to you. Perhaps not.

--
Regards, Joe

Sorni wrote:

> "Joe Potter" <none@home.org> wrote in message
> news:gjv4b.6437$zK3.322151@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>> Hans K0HB wrote:
>>
>> > Am I missing something?
>> >
>> I think so.
>
> I disagree.
>
>> You *are* missing the point. Listen to those who know.
>
> Horse manure.
>
> For recreational riding, ride whatever cadence feels comfortable.
>
> Bill "different (pedal) strokes for different folks" S.
>

Bill, you are correct in that one may spin at whatever cadence one wants to on their own bike.

You are dangerous and ignorant if you recommend one not know the feel of the bike when one is in the
correct gear. This gear and feel is found by knowing correct cadence and the bike.

Are you recommending the OP destroy his knees?

--
Regards, Joe

In article <a071c45e4b21e9276538a9b4b840345b.128005 @mygate.mailgate.org>,
k0hb@earthlink.net says...
> "Joe Potter" <none@home.org> wrote
>
> > I have learned what cadence I should be at because this saves my knees
>
> Thankfully my knees are just fine. (I lead a pretty active outdoor life.) How does whether I'm
> loafing along at 40 RPM hurt my knees more than churning like heck in a lower gear at 80 RPM? (I'm
> not trying to be argumentative here, but simply missing the underlying concept.)
>
> > You *are* missing the point. Listen to those who know.
>
> I've been very successful in life by not simply "listening to those who (say they) know", but by
> searching for the root causes, so with all due respect, why is harmful to loaf along at 10 MPH at
> 50 RPM, and healthy to gear down and churn my legs at 80 RPM to make the same speed?

The lower gear and higher cadence results in less pressure on your knee joint, but IME (in my
experience), consciously trying to increase your cadence very far is something of a lost cause.
Instead, ride along at the speed you feel like, and occasionally shift down one gear and spin your
pedals at the higher rate to maintain that speed for just a little while. As you ride more and
improve your conditioning, you'll probably find that your comfortable cadence increases somewhat,
though you may never be comfortable at the 90+ rpm the pro's use.

I found that when I was starting out, my comfortable cadence was in the lower 70's, but after a few
months it had increased to between 80 and 85 rpm without really trying consciously to speed it up,
and my average comfortable riding speed also increased significantly. If I'm pushing hard, I might
hit 95 to 100 rpm, but can't maintain it for long, and the max I can spin and still get any power
into the pedals at all is about 120 rpm.

> Hans (Ignorant new bastard)

No, just a new rider still finding out what works for him. The best cadence for you might be higher
or lower than other riders, so just experiment and see what works over time.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

"Joe Potter" <none@home.org> wrote in message news:Rbw4b.6779$zK3.330893@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> Sorni wrote:

> >> You *are* missing the point. Listen to those who know.
> >
> > Horse manure.
> >
> > For recreational riding, ride whatever cadence feels comfortable.
> >
> > Bill "different (pedal) strokes for different folks" S.
> >
>
> Bill, you are correct in that one may spin at whatever cadence one wants
to
> on their own bike.
>
> You are dangerous and ignorant if you recommend one not know the feel of
the
> bike when one is in the correct gear. This gear and feel is found by knowing correct cadence and
> the bike.

The OP said he went on a couple of rides and that trying to concentrate on his cadence spoiled the
enjoyment for him. My advice to him (and him only) would be to forget cadence and go enjoy his
next ride.

> Are you recommending the OP destroy his knees?

Of course! Afterall, I'm not only ignorant, I'm dangerous! BWAHAHAHAHHA {evil laugh.wav}

Bill "but at least I can spell 'pedal'" S.

Joe Potter wrote:

> You are dangerous and ignorant if you recommend one not know the feel of the bike when one is in
> the correct gear. This gear and feel is found by knowing correct cadence and the bike.

What is a "correct cadence", and how does one know it when one sees it? What are the benefits of
using this cadence?

> Are you recommending the OP destroy his knees?

How does a specific cadence choice destroy one's knees?
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/