Who does not use drugs? - Page 2

right on, for the whore one.....lololo

"Brian trdina" <brian_trdina@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:354db2a2.0401301329.1ed69afd@posting.google.com...
> "JTN" <jtn@usps.com> wrote in message
news:<101kukbin1im802@corp.supernews.com>...
> > im thinking illegal should mean anything that has to be given out by a doctor. anything over the
> > counter should be legal as long as your under
the
> > limit, I.e. caffeine., effies, the likes.
>
>
> That's a good rule.
>
> I also think that if you cut the course, it should only be illegal if

> at the bar, it shouldn't be considered cheating if you wear a condom and no one finds out
> about it.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, that was clevvvvvor.... is it on the banned list????

"Stewart Fleming" <stewart.fleming@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:f6zSb.19711$ws.2625908@news02.tsnz.net...
>
> WTF is Evening Primrose Oil gonna do to enhance performance? It might stop the hot flushes, but...
>
> So when Rumsas said the EPO was for his mother-in-law, he could have been telling the truth...

"Donald Munro" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.30.09.24.59.333954@privacy.net...
> Benjamin Weiner wrote:
>
> > Either you are the same guy who posted this message last month about No-Doz and doping:
> >
> >
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=no...icycles.racing &hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&selm=3fe6b684%241%40darkstar&rnum=4>
> >
> > or you Kiwis really have an unhealthy obsession with No-Doz. Stewart Fleming, can we get a
> > ruling here? Jeez. It's just like drinking a cup of coffee, only not as enjoyable.
>
> Perhaps Steward will take the 5th Amendment when it comes to Kiwis having unhealthy obsessions :-)

After all, there are those rumors about him and Italian whores.....

"hold my beer and watch this..." <trdina@dejazzd.com> on a wanker's night
out wrote in message news:_tqdnVNJxZl1rIfdRVn-gQ@dejazzd.com...
>
> "Benjamin Weiner" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message
> > You're blurring a distinction, like between over the counter medication and abusing prescription
> > drugs for one thing. Do you really think popping a No-Doz and flat coke is on the same ethical
> > level as bulking up on steroids or sludging up on EPO?
>
> Is it okay to take a no-doze half way through a race, because you
recognize
> that caffeine has performance enhancing properties that are advantageous? What about two or three
> no-doze? As long as I don't violate the number in the piss test, I didn't cheat, right? Now, what
> if I decide to also take ephedrine, but take it at a level that will be below that which will make
> you test positive at the published limit? Is that cheating?

If you believe that no-doz is a pick-me-up be my guest. If you think that ephidrine below the
levels that are illegal is going to give you a performance boost be my guest. But then you never
were very bright.

> Now howabout testosterone: Endurance athletes are known to have
testosterone
> levels drop over the course of long events (e.g., a 10 day - 3 week tour). Is it okay for the team
> doctor to monitor testosterone levels and, when they start to drop off, inject riders to bring
> them back to normal levels?

I would say that those who need testosterone boosting probably don't have any balls to begin with.

According to USADA, you're a doper.

"the use of an expedient (substance or method) which is potentially harmful to athletes’ health
and/or capable of enhancing their performance"

>Subject: Re: Who does not use drugs? From: Benjamin Weiner bjw@mambo.ucolick.org Date: 1/30/2004
>2:44 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <401a195c$1@darkstar>
>
>In rec.bicycles.racing Doer <ro@net.nz> wrote:
>
>> When I do a longish ride (80-100 Ks) I use XLR8, Occasionally a can of coke towards the end of
>> the ride, which really is a good "pick me up" for a short period. I now discover that the loudest
>> proponent against drugs in cycling has this "energy system" About ten K's before the end of a
>> race he will pop a No-Doz (Keep awake) pill and down a can of flat (Well shaken) coke. Now to me
>> he is as bad as any "dope head" in any peleton, professional or not.
>
>Dude,
>
>Either you are the same guy who posted this message last month about No-Doz and doping:
>
>
><http://groups.google.com/groups?q=no...c.bicycles.rac
ing&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3fe6b684%241%40darkstar&rnum=4>
>
>or you Kiwis really have an unhealthy obsession with No-Doz. Stewart Fleming, can we get a ruling
>here? Jeez. It's just like drinking a cup of coffee, only not as enjoyable.
>
>> To me doping is doping, but where does "doping' start? Am I a doper as I take substances that
>> increase my riding ability for a short while? I think many of us need to think carefully about
>> what we use ourselves before condemning any body else. Sure any illegal substance should be dealt
>> to, but just a note of caution about what we ourselves use.
>
>You're blurring a distinction, like between over the counter medication and abusing prescription
>drugs for one thing. Do you really think popping a No-Doz and flat coke is on the same ethical
>level as bulking up on steroids or sludging up on EPO?

>Dude,
>
>Either you are the same guy who posted this message last month about No-Doz and dopingr you Kiwis
>really have an unhealthy obsession with No-Doz.Stewart Fleming, can we get a ruling here? Jeez.
>It's just like drinking a cup of coffee, only not as enjoyable.

No I am not the same poster as last month and did not see his post.

>You're blurring a distinction, like between over the counter medication and abusing prescription
>drugs for one thing. Do you really think popping a No-Doz and flat coke is on the same ethical
>level as bulking up on steroids or sludging up on EPO?
When it is used in a mid week club race it is to me. Mainly because of the need to use drugs in a
club event to me, seems pathetic.Mind you, you can get some powerful stuff over the counter today. I
understand the temptation in the bigger races for sure, but at club level? A need for a reality
check maybe. Doer.

hold my beer and watch this... <trdina@dejazzd.com> wrote:

> "Benjamin Weiner" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message

> > You're blurring a distinction, like between over the counter medication and abusing prescription
> > drugs for one thing. Do you really think popping a No-Doz and flat coke is on the same ethical
> > level as bulking up on steroids or sludging up on EPO?

> You're operating at the most egregious extremes and acting like every situation is cut and dried.
> The distinction is already very blurry.

> Is it okay to take a no-doze half way through a race, because you recognize that caffeine has
> performance enhancing properties that are advantageous? What about two or three no-doze? As long
> as I don't violate the number in the piss test, I didn't cheat, right? Now, what if I decide to
> also take ephedrine, but take it at a level that will be below that which will make you test
> positive at the published limit? Is that cheating?

Well, as TK (gasp) pointed out, if the rules and limits are done right, then taking such a tiny
amount of ephedrine that you're under the limit will have no performance enhancing effect anyway -
it's just homeopathy.

You raise a good point, which I think JFT answered well. Of course there are blurry areas - how do
we justify the difference between legal and illegal enhancers (caffeine, vs testosterone)? We make
appeals to principles, such as that athletes shouldn't feel compelled to take substances that may be
illegal or harmful. Anyone can come up with examples that may make the principles look distorted or
bogus, but they're all we've got.

But the OP didn't ask about any of this sophisticated ethics stuff. He asked if someone who pops a
No-Doz has any right to criticize riders who get busted for doping, and by extension whether any of
us are pure enough to criticize, say, dumbass pros like that guy that got popped for EPO twice last
year. That's a bull**** level of moral equivalency.

> Now howabout testosterone: Endurance athletes are known to have testosterone levels drop over
> the course of long events (e.g., a 10 day - 3 week tour). Is it okay for the team doctor to
> monitor testosterone levels and, when they start to drop off, inject riders to bring them back
> to normal levels?

> Howabout blood boosters? If I take drugs that increase my hematocrit, but I don't exceed the 50%
> rule, have I really broken the rules? What if I don't do any drugs, and I sleep in a hyperbaric
> chamber and spike my hematocrit over 50, does that mean that I'm a cheater?

> When you get right down to it, the only way to determine cheating from non-cheating is to compare
> behavior and (where applicable) lab results to the letter of the rules, and where it is violative
> in a specific, non-subjective manner, then its cheating. That's why the real trick is to write
> rules that are enforceable and that make sense.

I agree, but this argument is also somewhat circular - you need some kind of principle to underlie
the rules.

ro@net.nz wrote:

> >about No-Doz and dopingr you Kiwis really have an unhealthy obsession with No-Doz.

> No I am not the same poster as last month and did not see his post.

Cool, so we've established that NZ bike racers are keeping the No-Doz Corporation alive and well.

> >You're blurring a distinction, like between over the counter medication and abusing prescription
> >drugs for one thing. Do you really think popping a No-Doz and flat coke is on the same ethical
> >level as bulking up on steroids or sludging up on EPO?

> When it is used in a mid week club race it is to me. Mainly because of the need to use drugs in a
> club event to me, seems pathetic.Mind you, you can get some powerful stuff over the counter today.
> I understand the temptation in the bigger races for sure, but at club level? A need for a reality
> check maybe.

In that context, your buddy should be _embarrassed_ for sure, but that's not the same thing
as cheating.

rondechump@aol.com (Ronde Chump) wrote in message news:<20040130202546.21768.00001092@mb-m06.aol.com>...
> According to USADA, you're a doper.
>
> "the use of an expedient (substance or method) which is potentially harmful to athletes’
> health and/or capable of enhancing their performance"

Wow, training is a method which is "potentially harmful" and clearly "capable of enhancing their
performance".

Why isn't training banned? I guess I'm a doper too.

Max

Stewart Fleming wrote:
> Donald Munro wrote:
>
>> Benjamin Weiner wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Either you are the same guy who posted this message last month about No-Doz and doping:
>>>
>>>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=no...icycles.racing &hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&selm=3fe6b684%241%40darkstar&rnum=4>
>>>
>>> or you Kiwis really have an unhealthy obsession with No-Doz. Stewart Fleming, can we get a
>>> ruling here? Jeez. It's just like drinking a cup of coffee, only not as enjoyable.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps Steward will take the 5th Amendment when it comes to Kiwis having unhealthy
>> obsessions :-)
>
> Bungee jumping, jet boating, mountain climbing, paragliding, heli-skiing, sheep shagging. 5 out of
> 6 of those activities are legal. As for obsessives, you should see the local Scrabble set...

I didn't know they'd outlawed bungy jumping.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

The US elite men's CX team?

Regards! Stephen