Toona, Toona, Toona

This is really a shame. It hurts so many good people who have worked very
hard to make this a fantastic race.
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7269.0.html

--
How strange when an illusion dies, it's as though you've lost a child.--Judy
Garland

>From: "B. Lafferty" Magni@Italia.com

>This is really a shame. It hurts so many good people who have worked very
>hard to make this a fantastic race.
>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7269.0.html

I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic. How about we wait for the
"FACTS" that you desire before w decide who is the problem here.
None of this is good for the race, but if the charges are true letting him
loot the race is even worse though you might not agree.
Bill C

"TritonRider" <tritonrider@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041204213223.07572.00001738@mb-m01.aol.com...
> >From: "B. Lafferty" Magni@Italia.com
>
>>This is really a shame. It hurts so many good people who have worked very
>>hard to make this a fantastic race.
>>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7269.0.html
>
> I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic. How about we wait for the
> "FACTS" that you desire before w decide who is the problem here.
> None of this is good for the race, but if the charges are true letting him
> loot the race is even worse though you might not agree.
> Bill C

No, I wasn't being sarcastic. If you read the complaint, it is pretty
detailed as to instances of mis-conduct. There will hopefully be a trial at
which the facts (truth?) will come out fully. What I found most disturbing
was the bookkeeper's finding out on the basis of a check for work not done.
That's usually the way this type of case comes to see the light of day.

Toona has been a wonderful race since its inception. This hurts it and the
sport in general. Lets hope that this doesn't send the Toona race down the
road to extinction. At least the club has instituted safeguards. A good
lesson for other clubs and promoters.

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

> "TritonRider" <tritonrider@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20041204213223.07572.00001738@mb-m01.aol.com...
> > >From: "B. Lafferty" Magni@Italia.com
> >
> >>This is really a shame. It hurts so many good people who have worked very
> >>hard to make this a fantastic race.
> >>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7269.0.html
> >
> > I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic. How about we wait for the
> > "FACTS" that you desire before w decide who is the problem here.
> > None of this is good for the race, but if the charges are true letting him
> > loot the race is even worse though you might not agree.
> > Bill C
>
> No, I wasn't being sarcastic. If you read the complaint, it is pretty
> detailed as to instances of mis-conduct. There will hopefully be a trial at
> which the facts (truth?) will come out fully. What I found most disturbing
> was the bookkeeper's finding out on the basis of a check for work not done.
> That's usually the way this type of case comes to see the light of day.
>
> Toona has been a wonderful race since its inception. This hurts it and the
> sport in general. Lets hope that this doesn't send the Toona race down the
> road to extinction. At least the club has instituted safeguards. A good
> lesson for other clubs and promoters.

Toona is as strong as ever and their sponsorship base has actually increased.
The facts in the Toona v. Leidy matter are highly contested by both sides. The
Toona race people say they had no idea the money was being taken, and Leidy
says he was simply taking fair market compensation for work performed.

The devil is in the details, as either argument is plausible at face value.
Since the club's insurance company is representing Leidy, it is likely there
will be some kind of settlement without any admission of guilt/liability.

That is probably the best thing for all parties involved, and for the future of
the race. If the case goes to trial, then the jury verdict will be
dispositive.

Phil

"Phil <phil@ .net >" <"no spam> wrote in message
news:uKydnQhdlIyVwS7cRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> "B. Lafferty" wrote:
>
>> "TritonRider" <tritonrider@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:20041204213223.07572.00001738@mb-m01.aol.com...
>> > >From: "B. Lafferty" Magni@Italia.com
>> >
>> >>This is really a shame. It hurts so many good people who have worked
>> >>very
>> >>hard to make this a fantastic race.
>> >>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7269.0.html
>> >
>> > I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic. How about we wait for
>> > the
>> > "FACTS" that you desire before w decide who is the problem here.
>> > None of this is good for the race, but if the charges are true letting
>> > him
>> > loot the race is even worse though you might not agree.
>> > Bill C
>>
>> No, I wasn't being sarcastic. If you read the complaint, it is pretty
>> detailed as to instances of mis-conduct. There will hopefully be a trial
>> at
>> which the facts (truth?) will come out fully. What I found most
>> disturbing
>> was the bookkeeper's finding out on the basis of a check for work not
>> done.
>> That's usually the way this type of case comes to see the light of day.
>>
>> Toona has been a wonderful race since its inception. This hurts it and
>> the
>> sport in general. Lets hope that this doesn't send the Toona race down
>> the
>> road to extinction. At least the club has instituted safeguards. A good
>> lesson for other clubs and promoters.
>
> Toona is as strong as ever and their sponsorship base has actually
> increased.
> The facts in the Toona v. Leidy matter are highly contested by both sides.
> The
> Toona race people say they had no idea the money was being taken, and
> Leidy
> says he was simply taking fair market compensation for work performed.
>
> The devil is in the details, as either argument is plausible at face
> value.
> Since the club's insurance company is representing Leidy, it is likely
> there
> will be some kind of settlement without any admission of guilt/liability.
>
> That is probably the best thing for all parties involved, and for the
> future of
> the race. If the case goes to trial, then the jury verdict will be
> dispositive.
>
> Phil

As you are no doubt aware, Leidy's problems center on disclosure of his
activities/conflicts to the Board and whether or not they were aware of and
approved the compensation sought. There may or may not have been criminal
intent, but there may well be a civil cause of action to recover some or a
good portion of the money. Regardless of how it turns out, the Toona club
is in the unenviable position of having to deal with negative publicity with
both the public and past.potential sponsors. It does sound as though they
have take the proper corrective steps to make a recurrence unlikely.

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

> "Phil <phil@ .net >" <"no spam> wrote in message
> news:uKydnQhdlIyVwS7cRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> > "B. Lafferty" wrote:
> >
> >> "TritonRider" <tritonrider@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:20041204213223.07572.00001738@mb-m01.aol.com...
> >> > >From: "B. Lafferty" Magni@Italia.com
> >> >
> >> >>This is really a shame. It hurts so many good people who have worked
> >> >>very
> >> >>hard to make this a fantastic race.
> >> >>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7269.0.html
> >> >
> >> > I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic. How about we wait for
> >> > the
> >> > "FACTS" that you desire before w decide who is the problem here.
> >> > None of this is good for the race, but if the charges are true letting
> >> > him
> >> > loot the race is even worse though you might not agree.
> >> > Bill C
> >>
> >> No, I wasn't being sarcastic. If you read the complaint, it is pretty
> >> detailed as to instances of mis-conduct. There will hopefully be a trial
> >> at
> >> which the facts (truth?) will come out fully. What I found most
> >> disturbing
> >> was the bookkeeper's finding out on the basis of a check for work not
> >> done.
> >> That's usually the way this type of case comes to see the light of day.
> >>
> >> Toona has been a wonderful race since its inception. This hurts it and
> >> the
> >> sport in general. Lets hope that this doesn't send the Toona race down
> >> the
> >> road to extinction. At least the club has instituted safeguards. A good
> >> lesson for other clubs and promoters.
> >
> > Toona is as strong as ever and their sponsorship base has actually
> > increased.
> > The facts in the Toona v. Leidy matter are highly contested by both sides.
> > The
> > Toona race people say they had no idea the money was being taken, and
> > Leidy
> > says he was simply taking fair market compensation for work performed.
> >
> > The devil is in the details, as either argument is plausible at face
> > value.
> > Since the club's insurance company is representing Leidy, it is likely
> > there
> > will be some kind of settlement without any admission of guilt/liability.
> >
> > That is probably the best thing for all parties involved, and for the
> > future of
> > the race. If the case goes to trial, then the jury verdict will be
> > dispositive.
> >
> > Phil
>
> As you are no doubt aware, Leidy's problems center on disclosure of his
> activities/conflicts to the Board and whether or not they were aware of and
> approved the compensation sought. There may or may not have been criminal
> intent, but there may well be a civil cause of action to recover some or a
> good portion of the money. Regardless of how it turns out, the Toona club
> is in the unenviable position of having to deal with negative publicity with
> both the public and past.potential sponsors. It does sound as though they
> have take the proper corrective steps to make a recurrence unlikely.

Brian,

I think the problem in the criminal case was whether or not the bylaws allowed
the president to authorize payments to himself. Absent a bylaw that says no,
it might be permitted though I am not an attorney in corporate law or 501 (c.)3
laws of governance.

In the civil matter, I think it will come down to justifying actual services
performed and reconciling them with specific invoices. I don't know if a race
director and president necessarily needs anyone else's authorization to pay
himself for what is claimed to be fair-market value of work/services performed
as, again, I am not an expert in corporate law.

There might be problems with failing to disclose services and other such issues
though.

Negative publicity is still publicity. I am not aware of a single sponsor that
has pulled out of Toona because of this dispute, and they seem to be able to
retain old sponsors, as well as attract new ones.

I think it's important that sponsors know there are new safeguards in place and
that what was at least perceived to be corruption has been dealt with in an
adversarial way.

Some of the most corrupt race committees on the NRC are the ones where nobody
is outted because they are all on the take, and suckered sponsors don't realize
the amount of money that goes into cushy salaries that have little to do with
the quality and executables of putting on a race.

For example, if a race has been going on for 10 years, people on the race
committee don't need to be taking $25,000/year salaries just to get a town
council to rubber stamp a road closure resolution for a race with a $15,000
prize fund.

Or if you look at the Tour of Somerville - a race run by the township - do the
Somerville police, who get paid around $20,000 for the day, really need to be
paid the same amount of money as the entire race purse of all the fields
combined just to "patrol" a barricaded course of mothers pushing baby-strollers
and families cooking barbecues for 6 hours? You don't need all those uniforms
on the clock for that race. But since the township is "organizing" the race,
they approve those costs every year. It hurts the racers and the race. If
Somerville ever got a sponsor to kick in $100,000, the race purse would be
$25,000 and the police would just hire another 10 captains and 20 sergeants
getting double-time on Memorial Day to make sure nobody spilled their water ice
as they watched the race.

A lot of the corruption in race finances is put through as legitimate
expenditures when in fact the services themselves are not even needed or done
as a quid pro quo to wash the hand that feeds them. Most of this is never
reported except in ancillary cries when you hear racers complaining about
getting the same $12 for 8th place in a stage.


Phil

"Phil <phil@" <"no spam>.net"> wrote in message news:<ldidnV1ngIJy6y7cRVn-uw@comcast.com>...

>
> Some of the most corrupt race committees on the NRC are the ones where nobody
> is outted because they are all on the take, and suckered sponsors don't realize
> the amount of money that goes into cushy salaries that have little to do with
> the quality and executables of putting on a race.
>

dumbass,

if i have a company that puts on bike races and sponsors hire me to
organize a race i can pay my employees whatever i want. that's not
illegal unless there's some conflict of interest involved.

some of you have a problem with people making money.

if race organizers happen to make more money than riders, that means
their services are more valued.

On 6 Dec 2004 00:31:08 -0800, amit@physics.utoronto.ca (Amit) wrote:

>if i have a company that puts on bike races and sponsors hire me to
>organize a race i can pay my employees whatever i want. that's not
>illegal unless there's some conflict of interest involved.

Assuming that it falls between minimum wage and (if it were an
organized non-profit) the IRS standards for appropriate pay for a
non-profit executive (a clear audit item for this year and probably
the next five or six), he still has a fiduciary interest to a lot of
people in the club chain. Authorizing your own compensation and not
making it clear is a really great way to lose a case like that.

If he really felt that he had earned the money, it wouldn't have taken
much effort to do it right. It appears that at the least, he didn't
bother. More than likely he thought it wouldn't fly if he tried.Good
enough reason to remove him permanently from the scene, once this
plays out.

And it probably comes as a slap in the face to a lot of volunteers
that thought their time was worth a bit of money as well.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Phil, Curt

I do agree with curt's points, but i wasn't addressing the toona
situation at all, but responding to the rant about promoters you tacked
on to the end.

a race organizer with a big sponsor is basically contracted to put on a
bike race for the purpose of publicity. so you are doing a job for
money, and certainly if you organize a big race you'll have staff to
pay.

of course many races are run by clubs/non-profits, if they pay their
staff it has to be approved by their board (i guess this didn't happen
in the toona case).

if an organizer does a lousy job or takes advantage of volunteers their
event will cease to exist, the same forces are at work as in any
business.

On 9 Dec 2004 23:40:17 -0800, "amit" <amit@physics.utoronto.ca> wrote:

>a race organizer with a big sponsor is basically contracted to put on a
>bike race for the purpose of publicity. so you are doing a job for
>money, and certainly if you organize a big race you'll have staff to
>pay.

That isn't what I've seen from the sponsor side. The sponsor is
looking for a promotion activity. Sports as an event have a community
involvement aspect, irrespective of some of the indiviudals involved.
As long as the event appears reasonably clean and the promotion
expectations are met, there is little involvement with promoter.

IOW, we don't pay for the bike race, we pay for a crowd and a banner
and a mention in the paper.

For that reason, as a sponsor we would be far more concerned if the
promoter is in the paper, as opposed to a rider called on drug
charges. The latter calls into question a level that does not
particularly reflect on a one day or one event sponsor. The former
calls into question the event and that would make a sponsor walk away
from that event.

As to the pay issue, I don't see it any different than if the club
officers used some club funds to buy pizzas and beer after the last
race of a series. If it was mentioned in the club circular and it was
pretty much done in the clear, it would be a non-event. If they were
just riding home and decided to pull money out of the cash box and
party, I'd be ready to dump them at the first opportunity.

This guy really appears to have hit the cash box and it may well cost
them a lot of sponsors.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...