Spain photos + report

Sharon and I just got back from a week in south central Spain, and it was great. Photos at
http://roberts-1.com/t/b03/spain

Our first time there -- much thanks to Garry Lee for championing Spain as the place to ride. We
explored various areas south of Madrid, bounded by Chinchon to Granada - Alpujarra to Ronda -
Grazalema to Sevilla to Toledo (with the aid of a rental car).

What struck us most was the very modern and bicycle-friendly road network. Perhaps the best
bicycling road network in the world: smooth pavement, generally wider than any other European
country I know, good shoulders on high-traffic-volume roads, well-designed grading to smooth out
hill-climbs, clear direction signs (except inside old city centers).

We also liked the quiet farm country, greener than we expected around the hills. We liked the food a
lot -- though we haven't figured out the hours for buying it while out riding.

We liked using the book of Michelin 1:400000 maps: Espana & Portugal, Atlas de Carreteras Turistico
2003 (ISBN 2-06-100242-0). We were even more glad for the Michelin 1:200000 Zoom 124 Costa del Sol
map (though it did not seem as helpful yet as their France maps for warning about big hill-climbs).

The area I most want to get back to is Sierra de Grazalema, in the mountains between Seville and
Malaga (see the Zahara photo page). And nearby Ronda area was pretty nice too. We found some long
climbs there, but smoothly graded and with big rewards in views and descents.

Then there's so much wonderful gentler terrain all over the interior where it seemed like we could
ride anywhere. Not sure where to pick, so I guess we'd try the area southeast from Sevilla, because
it's close to Grazalema and Ronda.

mid-November was great for Sevilla and Grazalema, though a bit cool for the Madrid region early in
the morning.

Which Spanish-language bicycle tour guides should we buy for our next trip there?

Ken

> What struck us most was the very modern and bicycle-friendly road network. Perhaps the best
> bicycling road network in the world: smooth pavement, generally wider than any other European
> country I know, good shoulders on high-traffic-volume roads, well-designed grading to smooth out
> hill-climbs, clear direction signs (except inside old city centers).
>

Funny. I rode two days in northern Spain last fall after a week in France (see
http://cassoulet.crazyguyonabike.com). I had the opposite feeling: a bicycle-hating country turning
every major road into a motorway. I was relieved to get back to France after that.

Jacques

PS. Well, OK, I must admit that on other occasions I did have very good cycling experiences in
Spain, but only on very remote minor roads in the countryside.

Well I've only been to the south central part of Spain, not the north -- and a few parts of France,
mostly the Savoie and Isere departments.

jacques wrote
> I was relieved to get back to France after that.

Funny. I was specifically thinking of how inferior are the Route National "N" roads I've experienced
so far in France. How about look at my photo of an N-road in south central Spain:
http://roberts-1.com/t/b03/spain/aracena How about name one Route National road in Isere or Savoie
that's half as well designed for bicycling as that?

(and how about name some routes national N-roads in France as well designed for _cars_ as that. How
does the motor vehicle death rate in France compare with Spain?)

> . . . turning every major road into a motorway.

My experience in south central Spain was that many of the big autovia motorways had parallel service
roads with little traffic which were nice for bicycling. But in France the big autoroute motorways
require payment of _tolls_, so the parallel non-autoroute roads are jammed with high-speed cars and
trucks avoiding the toll payments.

Ken

I rode around Spain early last summer, coming into Spain near the Mediterranean from Portugal and
leaving Spain due north of Barcelona. Major points on my itinerary were Seville, Cordoba, Granda,
Valencia, and Barcelona.

The roads were great - some of the best in Europe - but the bicycling wasn't. Spain has great things
to see - The Mesquita at Codoba is simply stunning - and some fine places to visit, but I enjoyed
riding more in Portugal which has some of Europe's worst roads, and neither of those compares to
riding in France. Culture and attitude towards cyclists are both more important than great roads for
for great bicycling.

Mark <http://www.cs.unca.edu/~boyd/bicycling.html

"Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_no7s@yahoo7.com> wrote in
news:Kohub.78177$Ec1.4061696@bgtnsc0...ldnet.att.net:

Hi Ken,

> Well I've only been to the south central part of Spain, not the north -- and a few parts of
> France, mostly the Savoie and Isere departments.
>
I've ridden in various parts of Spain and the quality of the roads can be quite different. The area
of Spain where you were is quite touristy and quite wealthy as well- can afford decent roads.
Moreover, the amount of traffic on the roads is determined by the time of the year to acertain
degree- August in Spain is insane on the roads and very dangerous.

>
> My experience in south central Spain was that many of the big autovia motorways had parallel
> service roads with little traffic which were nice for bicycling.

Good point.

But in France the big autoroute motorways require
> payment of _tolls

This is true in parts of Spain as well

> Ken
>
Balthasar

"jacques" <jamnospam@bluewin.ch> wrote:

>Funny. I rode two days in northern Spain last fall after a week in France (see
>http://cassoulet.crazyguyonabike.com). I had the opposite feeling: a bicycle-hating country turning
>every major road into a motorway. I was relieved to get back to France after that.
>
I cycled in Germany and France this fall, Austria last year (see
http://webhome.idirect.com/~brown/mosel1.html ). I aim to get off roads as much as possible, which
is the reason I primarily picked Germany and Austria. They both have an excellent network of bike
paths, as does Holland. When I was on roads I found that French drivers were much less bike-friendly
than Germans and Austrians. Of course North American drivers are worse than the French. Ken Ken
Brown, Toronto Canada Ontario Rail Trails: http://webhome.idirect.com/~brown delete "nospam" if
replying via e-mail

balthasar wrote
> The area of Spain where you were is quite touristy and quite wealthy as well -- can afford
> decent roads.

That makes a lot of sense, and accounts for difference of my reports from others.

> August in Spain is insane on the roads and very dangerous.

I have another reason for not going to Spain in August: the heat.

But that's OK, I don't have any problem going back to that south central area more times -- it's not
so easy to find good bicycle touring places for November.

Ken