Ped Lanes

I am looking for information on rail trails and other bike paths that have a pedestrian lane, either
striped on the main trail or set aside separately.

Here on the Pinellas Trail, we have a separate pedestrian lane (at times just striped onto the
asphalt and at other places a completely separate strip of asphalt). It does not seem to me from my
daily observations to be of much use, since the vast majority of pedestrians wonder all over the
surface of the trail instead of staying within the designated lane.

Have other trails had this same problem? Does anyone know of a trail that had a pedestrian lane that
has now been removed due to conflict or lack of use?

Here the argument in favor of a separate pedestrian lane on the trail is that you have different
speeds between cyclists and pedestrians and therefore pedestrians are safer with their own lane set
aside. But my argument is that if that were true, then why don't pedestrians use that lane???

I would much prefer that all trail users keep right as much as possible so that there is much less
chance for conflict especially when passing. But, I am open to the opinions of others. Thank You!

Best Regards, Kurt Polakoff Saint Petersburg, Florida

View my photos of the Pinellas Trail at Care2.com

In article <27788-3FDF2D5B-629@storefull- 2233.public.lawson.webtv.net>, emailkurt@webtv.net says...

...

> I would much prefer that all trail users keep right as much as possible so that there is much less
> chance for conflict especially when passing. But, I am open to the opinions of others. Thank You!

In RI, they have signs which tell pedestrians to keep to the left, facing the bike traffic, which
must keep right. Just like on the roads. I've never ridden the paths when they were very busy, but
it seemed to work fine the times I have been on it.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

My experience of the Pinellas trail has been that many of the pedestrians do pay attention to the
separation, especially in those parts where the trail is physically divided by a grass median.
Agreed quite a number wander about, but when they notice you on a bike many of these predictably
gravitate toward the 'pedestrian side', which helps. Even if the problem of unpredictable pedestrian
hazard is only reduced, every little bit helps.

Where I live (Kitchener, as opposed to visiting Dunedin (mainly riding on the N part of the Pinellas
trail)), there are a number of trails and none have marked lanes. People wander where they like and
so do bikes. When approaching from opposite directions people seem to instinctively use the 'keep
right' convention. Approaching from behind is much more of a problem, but can be resolved with
appropriate shouted warnings. At least on the Pinellas trail the majority of such situations have
the pedestrians already in or near 'their' lane whereas with no markings they (a) are all over the
place (b) often scatter to the edges when they notice me regardless of my stated intent ('on your
left'), leading to braking, uncertainty/indecision and a slow pace through the middle with hazards
both sides (c) occasionally resent my choice of passing side, however reasonable it seems to me -
and I have no justification in the form of marked lanes to fall back on.

I agree with your preference for a keep right rule, but see little hope of it working. I prefer a
marked lane to the apparent absence of a rule. Apart from traffic volume considerations (Kitchener
trails are not as busy) I consider cycling the marked Pinellas trail to be a better experience than
cycling my local (unmarked) trails.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:05:47 -0500 (EST) emailkurt@webtv.net (Kurt Polakoff) wrote:
> I am looking for information on rail trails and other bike paths that have a pedestrian lane,
> either striped on the main trail or set aside separately.
>
> Here on the Pinellas Trail, we have a separate pedestrian lane (at times just striped onto the
> asphalt and at other places a completely separate strip of asphalt). It does not seem to me from
> my daily observations to be of much use, since the vast majority of pedestrians wonder all over
> the surface of the trail instead of staying within the designated lane.
>
> Have other trails had this same problem? Does anyone know of a trail that had a pedestrian lane
> that has now been removed due to conflict or lack of use?
>
> Here the argument in favor of a separate pedestrian lane on the trail is that you have different
> speeds between cyclists and pedestrians and therefore pedestrians are safer with their own lane
> set aside. But my argument is that if that were true, then why don't pedestrians use that lane???
>
> I would much prefer that all trail users keep right as much as possible so that there is much less
> chance for conflict especially when passing. But, I am open to the opinions of others. Thank You!
>
> Best Regards, Kurt Polakoff Saint Petersburg, Florida
>
> View my photos of the Pinellas Trail at Care2.com

--
John Turner john@ibisolutions.nospam.net http://www.ibisolutions.net

In Tucson, our off-road bike paths do have signs that say, in essence, "Pedestrians, use the left
lane. Bicyclists, use the right lane." In other words, act like you're walking or riding along on a
real road, people.

But getting people to read and follow these simple instructions is another matter. That's why I ride
v-e-r-y carefully whenever I use a bike path in this town.

Martha Retallick Tucson, Arizona, USA

Postcards and greeting cards for bicyclists: http://www.CafeShops.com/Postcarder

Kurt Polakoff wrote:

>I am looking for information on rail trails and other bike paths that have a pedestrian lane,
>either striped on the main trail or set aside separately.
>
>Here on the Pinellas Trail, we have a separate pedestrian lane (at times just striped onto the
>asphalt and at other places a completely separate strip of asphalt). It does not seem to me from my
>daily observations to be of much use, since the vast majority of pedestrians wonder all over the
>surface of the trail instead of staying within the designated lane.
>
>Have other trails had this same problem? Does anyone know of a trail that had a pedestrian lane
>that has now been removed due to conflict or lack of use?
>
>Here the argument in favor of a separate pedestrian lane on the trail is that you have different
>speeds between cyclists and pedestrians and therefore pedestrians are safer with their own lane set
>aside. But my argument is that if that were true, then why don't pedestrians use that lane???
>
>I would much prefer that all trail users keep right as much as possible so that there is much less
>chance for conflict especially when passing. But, I am open to the opinions of others. Thank You!
>
>
In Boulder, the Broadway bike path parallels the University (follows the main north south route
through town - Broadway, past the University). There is a tan, striped bike path - about 8 feet wide
(or more), a strip of rough concrete about a foot wide, and then a sidewalk. Every 100 feet or so
there are big (3 feet long) pictures of a pedestrian (the "walk / don't walk" guy) affixed to the
concrete and a bicycle on the bike side. Does it help? Sometimes.

I noticed everyone in Europe has bells, so I did the same - tired of calling out, "on your left."
Now I ding my bell when I'm 20 - 30 feet back and hope they don't have headphones on. People tend to
ignore the large iconic figures.

Every September the path is strewn with new students (high school kids+) who have NO clue and use
the entire path, walking 5, 6, 10 abreast. I have a game I play with them, and I swear, that by
November there are far fewer ignoramuses.

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO http://www.CycleTourist.com Integrity is obvious. The lack of it
is common.
*****************************

"Martha J. Retallick" <Lrpdesigns@theriver.com> wrote in message
news:brnkv0$rg3$0@216.39.176.46...
> In Tucson, our off-road bike paths do have signs that say, in
essence,
> "Pedestrians, use the left lane. Bicyclists, use the right lane." In other words, act like you're
> walking or riding along on a real road, people.
>
> But getting people to read and follow these simple instructions is another matter. That's why I
> ride v-e-r-y carefully whenever I use a bike path in this town.

I would say the same for Vancouver.

We have about 30 km of continuous sea side trails. Where it is marked and separated, the ped side on
the water side, as that is where the view is and is where peds should normally want to walk. Those
sections are well marked both in overhead signs and with logos on the path. (They are all paved.) I
would say that about 25% of the peds are on the wrong section, while cyclists and in-line skaters
are normally on the correct side. Many of these sections are in popular tourist areas, such as
Stanley Park, so that may have something to do with the poor compliance.

Colin

Here in Illinois, they are 7th graders collecting leaves for science project. Please
describe the game.

Chuck Anderson wrote:
> Every September the path is strewn with new students (high school kids+) who have NO clue and use
> the entire path, walking 5, 6, 10 abreast. I have a game I play with them, and I swear, that by
> November there are far fewer ignoramuses.

Mike Schwab wrote:

>Here in Illinois, they are 7th graders collecting leaves for science project. Please describe
>the game.
>
>Chuck Anderson wrote:
>
>
>>Every September the path is strewn with new students (high school kids+) who have NO clue and use
>>the entire path, walking 5, 6, 10 abreast. I have a game I play with them, and I swear, that by
>>November there are far fewer ignoramuses.
>>
>>
I wouldn't feel right doing this with 7th graders. My "game" would not be suitable for
those so young.

On the other hand, people old enough to have driving experience (college freshmen) should understand
the importance of the rules of the road and granting due right of way.

The frustration of ultimately leads me to surprise them from behind with a very quick, very quiet,
and very close pass - a sort of non contact coup. At least, so far I've never made contact. I have
seen some people jump in the air, though.

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO http://www.CycleTourist.com Integrity is obvious. The lack of it
is common.
*****************************

Mike Schwab wrote:

>Here in Illinois, they are 7th graders collecting leaves for science project. Please describe
>the game.
>
>Chuck Anderson wrote:
>
>
>>Every September the path is strewn with new students (high school kids+) who have NO clue and use
>>the entire path, walking 5, 6, 10 abreast. I have a game I play with them, and I swear, that by
>>November there are far fewer ignoramuses.
>>
>>
I wouldn't feel right doing this with 7th graders. My "game" would not be suitable for
those so young.

On the other hand, people old enough to have driving experience (college freshmen) should understand
the importance of the rules of the road and granting due right of way.

The frustration of ultimately leads me to surprise them from behind with a very quick, very quiet,
and very close pass - a sort of non contact coup. At least, so far I've never made contact. I have
seen some people jump in the air, though.

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO http://www.CycleTourist.com Integrity is obvious. The lack of it
is common.
*****************************

Chuck Anderson wrote: <snip>
> On the other hand, people old enough to have driving experience (college freshmen) should
> understand the importance of the rules of the road and granting due right of way.
>
> The frustration of ultimately leads me to surprise them from behind with a very quick, very quiet,
> and very close pass - a sort of non contact coup. At least, so far I've never made contact.
When approaching head on I just keep coming without slowing down, even though they are all the way
across and on the grass on both sides.

When approoaching from behind I will yell out 'On your left from 20-30 feet, then repeat, then...
> I have seen some people jump in the air, though.
>
I use my Air Zound to get them to do this. A heavy duty plastic bottle with small aquarium air hose
feeds an air horn. 120 decibles. Sounds like a semi. The Local bike shop salesman said, 'with this
one you just blow the horn and ride right under them because they will jump so high'. Delta cycle
makes them, about 30 dollars. I have one on each bike.